So, hello guys. Thank you for joining us on Essential Workers.
I'm Mike Koski and I'm joined by my friend Nick.
And Nick has been joining us on the, um,
love One Deep Dives videos and those are so much fun. And, but Nick ha,
you have just a bazillion amazing, awesome stories.
It's so fun to listen to you talk about, about spirituality,
the way in which you learn from your life experiences,
the way in which you've been guided through your life experiences to be of
service to others. And I feel like for this particular discussion,
you could just assume that people who are listening haven't heard of anything,
uh, from your life before at all. And just have the speech be a fresh start.
Cuz we didn't really do introductions of who we are for the law of one series.
It's like, I don't, don't know if people would prefer, you know,
separate longer introductions.
This can essentially be an introduction if you'd like to give an introduction
to, um, you know, what, what is it that has led you down this path to the,
to this point where you, um, you're,
you're seeking to form a new kind of community. You're,
you're thinking a lot about community, I think for, for long term.
And you're thinking about, um, you know,
the law of one and a lot of things that have guided you. I,
the Ayurveda teachings are always interesting to get into as well. Mm-hmm. Um,
so maybe I could ask you to start with like, did you grow up as a spiritual,
religious person? Like how, how did,
how did spirituality for in your life start for you?
Um, well, like conventional religion, um,
I went to Catholic school for, uh, the first 12 years.
And I mean, we lived, it was the,
the church parking lot and that our house was right next to it. Um,
so we lived very close to, um,
a Catholic church and grew up in that.
And I think that that gave me really good discernment as to,
um, how to feel genuine people,
because my parents always told me, you know,
just cuz somebody's in a position of authority,
that doesn't mean that they are the authority, you know, follow your heart. If,
if they're telling you to do something that goes against your heart, then,
you know, maybe it's not the right thing. And, uh, you know,
I just lived there for so long. We saw priests and deacons and the, and the, uh,
cardinal came a couple times, so we got to meet a,
a whole range of the traditional, uh, Catholic, uh,
clergy. And, you know, obviously the,
the rectory and the convent.
I always called it the nunnery as a joke.
And now it's erased what it actually is in my head. Uh,
I think it's the convent. Yeah. Yeah. And so we,
we always had those kinds of people around us. Um,
so I got a healthy dose of dose of Catholicism, but I've always like, I mean,
one of the books that I have right here is, uh, it's like a,
it's like a Zen Buddhist teaching type thing.
And I've always been interested in those, those principles as well,
and kind of looked at 'em with this, you know,
going into Catholic school every day and they're saying, you know, it's this,
this, this, this, this. And then going to, you know,
Barnes and Nobles and going to the religion section and they said, well,
it could be all of these things. And, uh, it was always nice to,
to see that.
And then once I started getting into the Beyond Religions, I mean,
when you start looking at a lot of the, um, for me anyway,
when I started looking at a lot of the, um, Eastern religions and,
uh, people like Alan Watts and, um,
Ramdas and, and these kind of people, they showed that like, yeah,
these could be a framework, but there's more, there's a whole lot more beyond.
And then I started, uh, really diving into like, uh,
quantum physics and how religion and science were kind of like almost touching
at that point. And that, you know,
that's the big faux pa religion and science can't coexist,
but these people were at the forefront saying like, no,
they do and we can prove it now. And so, I mean, that,
that's just kicked it into overdrive at that point. And so now it's like,
how old were you?
How old were you then?
I think, uh, I was like,
I think I was like 14, 13, 14 when I first got ahold of, uh,
I think it was the Zen keys to Buddhism. And, um, but the,
the quantum stuff didn't come until much later just because, you know,
science wasn't, wasn't there yet, at least not for, uh, available to everybody.
You know,
once the internet kicked in and they started talking about all that stuff,
I just, you know, grabbed all of both hands. I think the, um,
uh, the thing, what the bleep do we know, I think it's called. Yep,
that's a good, that whole thing. Yeah. And then,
so I bought the box set to that, and then in the box set they have, um,
more of the interviews. Like they took snippets from the interviews,
these people and, uh, I guess especially John Haggling, the way that that guy,
uh,
puts how matter comes into existence in those interviews really just
kinda, you know,
flipped me into this inquisitive what else is out there? What have,
what have they proven that you
people that that,
that don't have the time or the energy to look into this stuff are living their
lives not knowing that that even exists.
And these guys like John Haggling and, um,
I think it was Nasim Hermine, uh,
they're given conferences speaking for like two hours about how thoughts become
matter, become the existence that we live around us.
And then I would look back into the, the Zen books and the Buddhist books,
and they're like, yeah, you think existence into the world,
the world is mental and like the alion where they say, uh,
the mental universe all is mental. So it's, it's been a cool journey.
I think it's an amazing time to be alive to to see the, the,
the meeting of the two.
I I personally think that we on this planet have lived through a time where
everybody knew this. It was just a matter of fact, but that kind of got lost,
forgotten. And now we're kind of swinging back into knowing that
Yeah, certainly. I mean, you reap what you sow. That's Jesus teaching.
And it seems as though the, the, it's kind of a lifelong journey,
even if you know it mentally that that our, our metaphysical reality,
our thoughts, our emotions,
our spiritual karma or whatever you think of it as, there's,
there's some kind of, you know, connection that's, that's ongoing and constant,
but it feels like it's a lifelong quest to actually get down to the details of
it. And like,
what is this experience teaching me about the thoughts that I hadn't been
acknowledging or the subconscious patterns I hadn't been acknowledging?
So it's like mm-hmm. It's, it's really, it's really a journey for everybody to,
to, to continuously like,
take the signs from the universe or take the signs from your own life and,
and learn that what's happening in your life is actually your teacher and like
that's your guru. It's like this,
this constant barrage of of experiences that are reflections of like mirrors of,
of what you're actually thinking about.
Yeah. It seems like that that, that this,
this existence on this planet is almost like a training ground for,
uh,
for physical beings to get control of their mind and
realize how much their mind has a, an impact on the whole rest of the world.
Cause I, I see it especially in,
in like little doses where
I think the easiest ones to see are, are, uh, when,
when like anger and frustration manifest because you're like, ah,
why, why?
The harder ones to see are when you're manifesting the good stuff because you're
just riding the, the good wave, not reflecting on it too much.
And that, I mean, it's like you said,
it's, it's all, it's all your teacher,
your existence is teaching you at every second.
And it recognizing that becomes very hard, especially during the good times.
Yeah. I will say the, the, I,
I've been helped by my son being a mirror now my
8 18, 19 18 19 month,
month old son who is basically wanting a lot of good experiences his whole life.
And so he, so when I, when I bring him somewhere to do something,
he has a great amount of fun, but then the pain comes in one,
we have to go when I have to pick him up again. Yeah. Take him off. And so the,
the extreme positive energies had to be balanced in some way that he couldn't
process yet. He hadn't pro, he hadn't balanced that, that aspect of himself,
that there, that he can't just continuously have a particular experience. And,
you know,
it can be that way with any kind of addiction people have where it's too much of
a good thing and the, the balance has to kick in.
And then people can't understand that that positive and the negative charge
were, were equivalent and that their attachment was what was the core,
uh, lesson that they were having worked through.
Yeah. And, and I, I fully believe that children are,
um, living more in the state that you live in when you're on some kind kind of
psychedelic,
because society like teaches you out of that
because society focuses on all the things that are physical and that are,
you know, real and all that stuff is not real. And I think that,
that the boundaries, the edges between kids and the world around them are a lot,
uh, like thinner or not even, you know, like not there.
Like they get into an area and they kind of diffuse into the area,
and then you pick 'em up and you're like, all right, time to go. And to you,
it's just, we're going somewhere else now. But to them, they're like,
let me gather myself back up out of this area and get ready to go somewhere
else.
Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot to process for, I mean,
hitting notices every little detail, but I,
it's just like I block things out and he's just, he's in the moment,
he's in every detail of the experience.
Yeah.
So we could, we could dive into some other, um, avenues here.
So did you have any particular periods in your life where you felt like it was
like a life-changing experience or like a pivot where you,
where you shifted or grew very rapidly because of this particular catalyst that,
that happened?
Um, I don't, I don't know if, if I,
I know I didn't recognize it at the time. Um,
and I don't know if it was so much a, uh,
like spiritual, uh, shift,
but a lot of times I like to look back and try and,
and look at, uh,
what exact moment if I removed that moment would've changed everything.
And so, like, I can, I can, it's usually, uh, people like you can link,
you can think, I,
I met this person and as a result I met that person and that person and that
person and that person. And for me, uh,
I know that I am sitting here right now because of, um,
one specific point in my, in my life when I was, uh,
I was a freshman, so I must have been like 16.
And a friend of mine who lived in the neighborhood and we played, uh,
hockey and football all together in the parking lot,
we would all get together all the time. Uh,
he was still in eighth grade and I had gone on to ninth grade. And, uh,
so we didn't really get to see each other that much,
but he kept telling me about this friend he had, uh,
at the high school that I went to. And he kept saying, go meet this person.
Go meet this person. He's, he's a good person. Go hang out with him.
Go hang out with him. And I hadn't, uh, up until the point where, uh,
his house burned down and he died in the fire.
And at the funeral he kept telling him about
me, and he kept telling me about him. And we kind of were like, okay,
now I have to meet this person, you know, as a,
as a tribute if nothing else to Ryan, I have to go meet this person.
And I mean, that person introduced me to, you know,
the next person that introduced me to the next person that got me my, uh,
first like, real job. And then that job led me to, uh,
actually one of the guys that I worked with,
and I would both talk about this kind of stuff, like spirituality. And, uh,
he was an older guy and he said to me, you know,
you can post on the company bulletin board to have a meeting and you could
just post the general topic of what the meeting is. And he was like,
why don't you post? What about spirituality? And I had been all,
I'd been working there for like less than a year, and I said, yeah, yeah, yeah,
sure.
I'm gonna be the nutter that goes on and posts this on the bulletin for this
company that has hundreds and hundreds of people. And, uh, eventually I did it,
I was the nutter. And we, I said, basic, just, you know, spirituality,
anything you wanna talk about, nothing's exempt.
And we got people from yoga to reiki to energy workers,
and it was fun to see in this building, um,
that you would've you pass by these people and talk to these people a hundred
times, but never breached into these type of topics.
And then we all got together and started talking about 'em.
And that was another pivotal moment because I met a guy, uh, named Rob.
And Rob was just like,
the more I think of Rob, the more I think that he is, he,
he was otherworldly just, just put here to just kind of,
you know, push people just like, Hey, you could do this or you could do that.
And I certainly, I got the, uh, I got the nudge from him and he,
he showed me, um, uh, it's called Rebirthing.
Um, but not many people will probably know that it's like a breathing technique,
uh, that helps you, um, integrate, uh,
things into your life that, that may or may not have been easy to, to, you know,
cope with at the time and may have scarred you. And, um,
you know,
that was another moment where a a after I started doing that and
talking to those people, they were like, you know,
you need to talk to these people.
And it was just this snowball rolling downhill.
And as soon as I got on this path,
it just got bigger and bigger and bigger until eventually it led me, uh,
to meet Alex and then Alex. I mean,
I would've lived and died my whole life living on the east coast, uh,
without the thought of, of moving. And Alex,
who lived quite the opposite childhoods moving around and she said, you know,
there's other options. And I was like, yeah, for vacation. She's like, no, no,
we could move and live somewhere else. And, you know, boom,
living here in Colorado. And it's, it's just crazy cuz you can, that I,
I have done that multiple times where I was like, well, without this person,
this wouldn't happen.
And I had to trace it all the way back to Ryan in ninth grade.
Yeah. Yeah. The, the,
one of the most interesting quotes in the law of one is says something like, um,
consider, well the,
the odd circumstances from which one thing flowed to the next,
and then every person will receive the opportunity that they need.
Because that's just the way everything is set up.
It's just strange coincidences,
odd circumstances just continuously unfold. And that's just the path that we,
that we chose even like before we were born. It seems that's how,
that's how we set it up.
Yeah.
I would like to know, I would like to know more about the rebirthing stuff.
Like, do you, you, so you,
you actually spent time at a rebirthing center and got really deep into that.
Could you, yeah. And I also wanna know,
like if you could give some recommendations to people for breathing exercises,
that kind of thing.
Um, yeah. Well, well, um, there's a lot of breathing. I mean,
breathing is so key to absolutely everything. And not just in the value idiot,
you have to breathe to live, but you can induce, uh,
heat into your body. You can induce cooling,
you can do all these different things with, with the breath. Uh, I personally,
um, I love how Alan Watts speaks about, um,
going into meditation and a lot of people that are really good meditators tell
you to focus, you know,
focus on the exterior and then bring it to focusing on yourself and then bring
it to focusing on smaller and smaller things until the last thing that you focus
on is the breath. And then, uh,
for me it's easiest to go from breath to that peaceful, serene place.
Um, but as far as breath,
rebirthing is something that you do, uh, you can do it yourself once you,
once you've, uh, done it a a bunch of times,
I wouldn't recommend going and buying the book and then just doing it because
the, the better way to do it is to, uh,
go to a rebirthing practitioner because, um, the,
the, the main thing, it's called rebirthing because there are, uh,
traumas that happen in the birthing process,
especially the western birthing process. And they, they have, um,
a and I'll say theories because, you know, it can't be,
can't necessarily be proven. I personally believe it a,
after being in the rebirthing center and talking to many different people about,
uh, um, the traumas that they have. But they'll say things like,
if the doctor was male and they the,
instead of you coming out, uh, at your own pace, they kind of reached in,
God forbid they used the forceps. Cause I mean, they,
they always do that stuff now, but like, if you, the forceps means something,
the doctor means something, you know,
and all these things as your first experience in this world, you know,
cuz you, I I like, like you were saying, I believe that you chose this life,
but the minute you manifest into this life,
for the vast majority of us, we forget all that.
And then it's your first experience in the physical world is, you know, like,
uh, some dude or some girl reaching and, and like pulling. You're like,
oh God, what is this? And, and, and all that stuff.
But the whole theory behind rebirthing is that, um,
you're, you're helping to, and, and again,
I I very deliberately say integrate because there is no clearing,
there is no moving past, you know,
these things happened in your life and you're, you're not getting over them.
You, you know, it's not something that you're conquering,
that you're putting behind you.
It's something that happened and you have to recognize it and bring it into your
life in a, in a, uh, he a healthier way. I, I don't know,
in a, in a way that that doesn't, um,
Push it away.
Yeah. And, and doesn't, cuz it can stain every,
every event that you have in your life after,
if you have this kind of negative thing sitting in the back of your psyche.
So they, they say you integrate the things,
which I thought was a beautiful way of putting it. Instead of, you know,
a lot of people say, you're gonna get past your traumas. Like, no, no, no,
I'm already past a trauma. It's back there, but it's still affecting me up here.
So to integrate it is a much better, uh, way verbiage. Um,
but I say all this about rebirthing, I love rebirthing. Uh, but the,
our Ayurvedic teacher actually told us that he doesn't like rebirthing
because rebirthing, he said that it's, it's a smaller piece of a greater hole.
And in teaching rebirthing, you're, you're like a la carting this,
this great healing technique. And he's like,
you should't be doing it just that you should be doing, you know,
this whole full gamut of,
of what I think he was talking about was Ayurveda because it's just,
it's, it's pretty crazy when you, when you get into it and you study that, um,
I mean, it's thousands and thousands of years old.
Ayurveda is a way of looking at absolutely everything in life.
And, you know, it puts a little bit greater understanding on things.
It, it, it, it, it, it, um, the subtle energies,
it brings the subtle energies into focus and
it brings it into your life in a way that you can kind of understand it.
Because the subtle energies are just that they're so vague and, and, um,
tough to understand in this physical world. But, so
Would it be fair to say that, um, this is, is, uh, just what,
like what we talked about with the law of one is like balancing the charges,
and I assume that there's charges from past traumas,
there's charges from our environment and different kinds of imbalances that need
to be balanced. Would you say that I eight is a system of finding balances?
A hundred percent. Uh, uh, yeah. And you know,
I say Ayurveda because I,
I wanted to avoid the term yoga because most people think of yoga as just the,
the asanas, just the movements. But yoga is, is what it is, you know,
it is, it, it is a system of a way of life.
And the, um,
clip notes version would be that they say that everything in life has, uh,
one of three aspects or a combination of 'em,
and it's Vata and Kapha and you know, it's like a top spinning.
And if, if your Kapha imbalanced,
the tops gonna start to wobble towards the Kapha side,
and then the tops gonna fall. And, you know, it's, it's,
and everything in life has it, you start your life with a certain, um,
it's called your, uh, constitution.
Your reti is the one that you have throughout your whole life.
And then they call the ti is what your current state is.
So if you're like, myself, I'm Kafa Pitta, and, uh,
if I get too Kapha induced, then I start to wobble. And, you know,
to anybody who doesn't know these terms, I'm speaking in other language. Cool.
Quite literally, it is San Sanskrit,
but they have no idea what I'm talking about.
But when you do learn these things and you're looking at your life and you're
like, oh man, you know what? I am Kapha imbalanced right now.
I need to get up and move. I need to do something.
And it's just a beautiful way of looking at the world and helping,
helping you out in your life.
So maybe we could just give a very brief summary, if that even is possible,
of the feeling of vodka, the feeling of Pitta, the feeling of kafa.
Um, so the, they, they can be applied to everything, uh,
feeling, um, you know, everything. A person, a table, a, a,
a plant especially, um, things like that. Um,
and Kapha is, um, and uh, again,
I wish we had Alex cuz she's the expert on all this. Um, Kapha is,
uh, wet and cold.
Vata is cold and dry and Pitta is hot and dry
and, uh, like pit to,
I guess the best way to describe it. And this,
this is misleading a lot of times because
it it, like, you say these things and people form a certain opinion, but it's,
it's not necessarily a good or a bad thing. It's just that,
and that's where the, the, the whole philosophy helps you balance.
Because I'll start with Kapha and Kapha people are around,
you know, like if you've ever seen somebody that is a heavier person,
but they carry that weight, well, you know,
they can be a balanced Kapha.
Now if you see somebody that is overweight and they don't look like they should
be overweight, that's a Kapha imbalance.
So when you say to somebody who knows,
just on the surface what Botta pit and Ka are, you say to 'em like,
you're a Kapha. A lot of people get offended cuz they're like, what,
what are you saying? I'm, I'm, I'm fat. I'm round. But it could be everything.
It could be like people that have more round eyes as opposed to Pitta eyes are
more olive or, or, um, more oval shaped. And, uh,
so it's, it's, it's, Kapha is, um, rounder. Um,
Kapha is the glue. Kapha is that which sticks. And, um,
this is the person that if you were gonna build a team, uh,
this would be the rock that you would build the team on. You know,
so they're the reliable one. They're the, the, um, Ganesh actually, um,
for those that know the, the elephant headed, um, uh, armed, uh,
man Ganesh is uh, uh,
kafa and he is the,
the like living embodiment of the remover of obstacles. He is,
um, endurance. Kapha goes on and on forever. And, uh,
and they will, if you're building a team, you build it on the Kafa person,
cuz the Kafa person will keep the team going.
Even when the Pitta person who is the,
the Pitta is the more, um, like muscular person,
the, like I said, the oval eyes. Uh, the Pitta is the doer,
but the doer often dos themselves out.
They'll burn themselves out from doing so intensely.
And that's when the Pitta needs the Kapha to pick up where they burnt themself
out, sustain, and then let the pitta, you know,
balance themself out cuz they over pitted themself. And then they'll,
they'll jump back on and start doing some heavy lifting then. And, you know,
everybody, again, when you say to somebody, oh, you're Pitta, they're like,
yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm, I look fit. I look, you know, this and that. But like,
mm, don't, don't get too full of yourself because being over Pitta is,
you know, being over any of them is not a good thing. And, um,
then you move on to like the Vata person. The Vata person is, um,
in their head is a heady person. Um, and again, people who,
who kind of know would, would be like, I'm not Vata, because Vata,
it can be scatterbrained. And, um,
our whole society right now is Vata inducing, which is a whole different topic.
Um, but, you know, everybody has these things in their lives.
Like Vata is movement. Vata is, anytime you do traveling,
you're inducing Vata. So you can, um,
over Vata yourself just by constantly traveling and not taking time to rest and
center yourself back down. And,
And are there specific foods or breathing exercises or anything like that that
people
Oh, yeah, yeah. There, I mean, everything in life has these,
so if you feel like you are, um, like, uh,
uh, Kapha is dairy, you know, uh, uh, cheese, milk, uh,
let me think what else would be Kapha for, for vegans?
Kapha would be like root vegetables, uh, like potatoes,
like thi, things like that. I believe potatoes. Some of 'em are tricky though.
Some of them, you think it's one thing, but it's, it's actually another. Um,
so if you're, you know, if you're in a place, I'll,
I'll give you a a better example. Uh, beans are vodka, beans are airy.
The good old beans, beans that are good for your heart. The more you eat,
the more you fart. I mean, that, that has some, you know,
Ayurvedic roots somewhere because beans induced,
air induced Vata. And so if you're trying to, uh,
um, like you,
if you're eating a lot of beans and then you find like,
you're driving and you're, what am I doing? You know, or you're, you're on a,
you're you're looking for something in the house and halfway through looking for
it, you forget what you're even looking for. Like, you're over Vata, you know,
you're, you're scatterbrained, you're in your head too much.
And then bring yourself back, you know, coffee yourself down,
bring yourself down to a little bit more centered and, you know,
find out what you're, what you're looking for. But, and, and again, in,
in the yoga, uh, training they taught us, uh, to tie it back to the breath,
they taught us all different breaths. Like the one was called,
um, I'll give the English word because I can't remember the Sanskrit word,
but it was like the skull shining breath.
And it was a certain way of breathing that
until you do it.
The best way I could describe it to you is it feels like you're cleaning your
brain. It feels like you're just skull shining. I mean, like,
you're just polishing it.
Like if you had discharges going off all over the place and all this,
you just kind of smooth it down and, and get yourself together.
And, uh, you know, like Wim Hof, that kind of stuff, he,
he's definitely doing certain aspects of,
of Ayurvedic breathing. Um, the rebirthing,
uh, the rebirthing is very intense,
and that's why I say you should do it with a practitioner. Um, Alex, uh,
and the Alex I'm referring to is Alexandra, uh, who,
whom is my love and not here right now, is usually sitting right next to me.
That's why I keep looking over this way. Um, she had, uh,
a pretty intense response to it because at the beginning
of the 200 hour program, which is where we met, uh,
we did rebirthing pretty early on. And the point of the rebirthing,
um, um, was to show the power of the breath. And,
uh, we had two teachers, the, the one, uh,
who said that you shouldn't do it by itself. Uh, he wasn't present for the,
um, for the, uh, re birthing session, but, um,
she had a,
a pretty intense reaction where she kinda like broke out in hides and,
and couldn't, couldn't really do it anymore. And, uh,
I had been doing it for months and months and months at that point.
As a matter of fact, the, the Philadelphia Rebirthing Center, uh, is where I, I,
um, studied it and first was introduced to it.
They were the ones who introduced me to the yoga studio where I did the, uh,
yoga and Ayurvedic learnings. And I'd been doing it there for months.
So it was kind of like a, a cakewalk for me at that point. And it's,
uh, it, it's,
it's like if you've never done maintenance on your car,
you're gonna have major problems. But if you do the,
the little things all along the road, you're,
you're just kind of topping off at getting it a little bit, little bit, uh,
back into the rhythm a little bit back in the rhythm.
So I was at that point where I was just topping off and, uh, you know,
Alex had never done it before. And, and she had a, a big response, you know,
like there were, there were things that were in there that,
that she needed to address. And I believe she since has addressed them, um,
you know, through, through the classes and all we've done, you know, it's,
it's just an, an introspective journey if you choose to let it be.
And we used Ayurveda and all these things, and I always said,
when I was in the rebirthing classes, I felt like, um, I felt like I was like,
uh, cheating or something. Cause I,
I was in the rebirthing class and learning how to integrate life traumas,
and I had never had any large life traumas, you know,
because we were in, we were in classes sometimes, uh,
rebirthing groups with 20 people,
and 18 of the 20 people had been e e
everything from, uh, molested by an uncle to,
uh, uh, had loved ones ripped away from him in very traumatic ways.
And like the, these people were dealing with major traumas.
And I was just kind of there like, this is fun.
This is a good learning experiences. And,
and these people are bawling their eyes out about these past experiences.
And I said to, um, uh, Tony and Maureen, the,
the two people that run the center, uh, and Rob, Rob lived in the, in the back,
uh, of it, uh, I was like, you know, I feel like, you know, I'm,
I'm like, I, I don't know if I'm not supposed to be here or like,
what's going on? You know, I know I love rebirthing,
but should I be here taking time away from, you know,
these people that really need the, uh, th this in their life?
And, you know, they, they were like, no, no, no, you need to be here.
There's a reason that, you know, you're holding energy and, and these people,
you know, that are going through traumas, they need, uh, people to,
to help them, uh, hold space and whatnot, you know?
And then couple years down the road, I find out I'm kafa.
And that's kinda like the CFA's duty is to, is to, and not even duty.
It's, it's the,
it's the thing that Kafa puts on themself to help those around them. They,
they have a, like you were saying at the beginning, a strong sense of community,
uh, um, uh, a desire and drive to help everyone around them.
Mm-hmm. And it's, uh, it, it, it's been a, it's been a crazy journey.
I mean, uh, I was, I didn't know this was what it was gonna be,
and now I'm like sitting here thinking about all this stuff, and like,
I'm having those think back introspective moments as we're having the talk.
Well, one comment I wanted to make is, uh, you know, I,
I've been aware of the work of Stanislav Gruff who did a lot of L S D research
and used L S D back when it was legal to guide people back through other
traumas. And inevitably that led to him forming strong belief that there were,
um, like around the time of birth kinds of traumas that you have to go back and
re-experience your birth. And when L S D became illegal,
he went in the direction of breath work too.
And he called it holotropic breath work. And I think,
I think now he kind of has his own thing, uh, his own breath method. Um mm-hmm.
I'm not sure if you've even heard of that ho tropic breath work,
and is that something that's related to what you're talking about?
Uh, I have heard of it, but I don't know enough about it to, to, to do,
to say definitively. But I mean, all of these things, whether it's, uh,
the teachings, it's in Sanskrit of Ayurveda and yoga, or, you know,
the Gnostic teachings,
or if you really read what Jesus said and not what the Catholic Cert Church
says, Jesus said, you know, they're all saying the same thing.
They're saying it in a different way, w with a slightly different angle on it,
but they're all saying the same thing. And, uh,
so I'm sure that he's, he's make,
he's drawn some connections to the same things that rebirthing is.
And the same thing that yoga and Beda is with the breath work.
Yeah. It's interesting. In Christianity, you have the, the word numa, which is,
was like the, the breath and the, the,
the Holy Spirit coming in with the breath. And there's something about, uh,
you know, the prana, the life force energy, I think that the breath is,
is kind of taking in, it's like we're not just breathing in oxygen,
we're breathing in prana at the same time. Right.
Or maybe our whole body is kind of like the skin itself is breathing in prana.
Maybe not even a physical thing, but a metaphysical thing being out in nature,
I assume is, is, is healing as, as well, because the, the, the,
the living auras of the,
the trees around you are kind of fueling that potential for you to reach a
slightly elevated state of consciousness to, to do healing in those conditions.
Yeah. So all seems connected.
Yeah. And, uh, one of the, uh, well, two interesting facts that I learned, um,
because the, the whole Ayurvedic and, um, yoga teachings,
the whole, uh, philosophy is that, you know, there's,
there's levels and there's not just the physical, there's the metaphysical. And,
you know, that's one of the things that the law of one talks about. Um, but the,
um, the,
the birth process is, is traumatic in so many ways. In, in, in the physical,
you know, I've seen, uh, chiropractors work on babies. And,
uh, the one, the one that I'll never forget is this woman, uh,
brought her baby into the chiropractor's office and the baby's just bawling its
eyes out, just, just, and this lady is having a full conversation,
clearly stressed, but like, this is just another Tuesday,
cuz this baby just apparently cries all the time.
It cries itself asleep, falls asleep,
wakes up crying and cries until it falls itself or cries itself to sleep again.
And she takes the baby to this chiropractor,
and the chiropractor gently lays the baby face down on his knees,
and he shows her points where the baby's spine is subluxated because
pushing through the birth canal can be, you know,
very traumatic for the spine in a, in a physical sense.
And he makes two little adjustments on the baby's back.
The baby stopped crying and the mom started crying. She was like, oh my God,
thank you so much. And it, it was just, it, you know,
it was amazing to see that. And he, he showed you that,
that they brought the camera down to the,
the back of the baby and you could see the little red spots and where the, the,
uh, he was saying that the baby was subluxated and things, you know,
blood wasn't getting through and all this and that. And he,
and he un subluxated the spine,
the thing the whole back turned to a uniform color instead of having the red
blotches in the spots. And, uh, but it, the, the,
the physical plays into the metaphysical and vice versa.
And it was, it was crazy to learn through yoga and Ayurveda.
Some of the more, um, uh, specific points,
like two of the things that I was getting at before I got sidetracked was, uh,
one that 70% of the toxins in your body are
released through aspiration, through breathing. And, uh, I mean that's,
that's the stat that they gave us.
I've looked into it and I've seen supporting work. Other people say, uh,
a little bit more, a little bit less,
but to think that that much of your body,
the physical process of your body, and, and it's like, no,
we don't need this anymore. We don't need that anymore.
And it pushes it to the lungs for you to breathe out. Um, was amazing. I had,
I, I would've thought like sweat or pee or poop or something like that,
but it was breathing. Um,
and then the other fact that they were saying is that like when you,
when you breathe out, you breathe in unless you're, you know,
unless you are forcing yourself to breathe in heavier,
you breathe in at the rate that the atmosphere around you pushes.
So like, are you breathing you or is the earth breathing you,
you know what I mean? Like if, cuz if you go higher up, you know, for,
for those of us that, that, uh, live at elevation, you know the difference,
you can go to the top of Mount Evans and you feel the difference.
You can feel the, you know, maybe, maybe it is kind of a 50 50 thing.
I'm not doing all the breathing. Uh,
sometimes the earth is breathing you and especially when you go to the top of
Evans and you're like, oh man, you know,
the earth isn't picking up its slack right now. Cuz I'm, uh, I'm,
I'm having to breathe pretty heavy here. You know, the thin air is not,
it's not pushing into your lungs at the same rate that you're used to.
I mean, on the unconscious level, you could even ask are,
are you beating your own heart or not? Yeah. Yeah.
That's, that's why when I started diving into the law of one, and, uh,
and again, you know, uh, Rob and, and Tony,
Maureen from the Rebirthing Center said, you, you know, you,
you should probably check out this book. And poof. I mean,
anybody that's read the law of one knows that once you start that it takes the
journey of your life and it just kind of, you know,
like you thought you were going here,
but this is gonna show you some things where you're gonna,
you're gonna look at things in a different light. And your life experiences,
for me anyway, are gonna be changed for the better. From that point out,
it brings a certain, uh, uh,
like recognition of the current moment that,
that so many things try to, but that, that book just kind of like,
yeah, yeah, you're gonna do this, read this book, and then you're gonna do this.
Yeah. Yeah.
It's certainly life changing for me to finally start digging into it. Um,
and that's the story of so many people. Um mm-hmm. Yeah, it's amazing to me.
It's not more, more popular, more well known. Um,
another area though I thought we could explore is, well, in,
in general it'd be cool to talk about what are the things that have helped us
the most, the tools, the, the toolbox.
And certainly we've talked about D m T and psychedelics lot before.
I thought we could dive into, into that a little bit too.
When did you first try a big dose of a psychedelic and when did you first try a
big dose of dmt?
Um, I
may screw up the dates. I was, I was certainly, um,
I think it was 20, it was in my early twenties.
Um, I could ask which psychedelic was the first one
And it, it was mushrooms was the first one. And, uh,
we made the classic mistake, uh,
where we ate three and a half grams and we were like, uh, everybody,
there was a group of, uh, probably like maybe 10 of us,
at least five or six of us. And, um,
we got a bunch of mushrooms and none of us had done 'em before. And we,
you know, read, this is how much you do, we did three, three and a half grams,
which is supposed to be, uh, the dose that will, uh, you know,
cuz if you take less than that, it can be a background thing.
But if you take three and a half and they're, and they're good, um, mushrooms,
then you will, the, the experience will take over your experience.
You know,
like you can function on less and have that background feeling and thoughts,
but once you take that 3.5, you're having a mushroom experience,
you're not having life with a mushroom tint. Right. And so we were like, oh,
okay, let's do that. We'll do 3.5 and the classic mistake,
20 minutes in, I don't feel anything,
and took the rest of the bag, divvied it up amongst this,
and we wound up taking about five grams each. And I mean,
I I, and to this day,
almost every time I take mushrooms, I have the thought.
I can't believe that a chemical, you know, and furthermore,
a a plant, a mushroom can, can do this, can,
can change the experience of the human experience so
drastically. And, uh,
I have that thought almost every time I do mushrooms still to this day,
even low dose, I'll be, I'll be experienced in life. And,
and then in the background have just overwhelming joy and sense of
oneness with the universe. And then almost immediately go,
can't believe this happens with just psilocybin, you know, and that the,
that the earth just,
just like sprouts it out of the ground waiting for you to grab it, you know?
Yeah. So, um, what about it was transformative? Do you feel like,
well, this, for me,
I feel like the large doses of psychedelics are those that have the most
permanent or long lasting sort of effects where, you know, you're,
it doesn't matter what you went through even sometimes during the trip,
it could be a, a, you know, a a very difficult, challenging experience.
But once it's, once it's done, it's almost like there's a,
there's a renewal or a freshened consciousness,
which is looking at things differently, able to take in the world differently.
Yeah. Is that your experience?
Yeah. Yeah, a hundred percent. It, it, it's like, um,
it's like you're born into this world knowing that we're all one and that at,
at the deepest, whether you want to go metaphysical or go physical, you know,
at the deepest levels, we are all connected.
There is only one thing that is happening in this universe,
and it is you and it is me, and it is everything, you know,
to, to do the John haggling quote out what to bleep, you know, uh,
everything is one at its root. And you,
especially in, in the society, the western society that you live in,
as you live your life,
it's like you come out knowing that and then you just slowly get further and
further from it. And those large dose, they, they kind of step you back,
you know, while you're in the experience, you're, you're right there.
And then once the experience starts to wane, you go back to like, you know,
you might have been here, but you go back to here. And, you know,
I wouldn't suggest constantly being on large dose or microdosing
for long periods of time, but I think that it is,
it is extremely useful,
especially in modern society to every once and again,
put everything down and go back and remember where you came from. And that's,
that's what the psychedelics do.
And do you think there's a potential that people could get that from just
meditation and Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. And, and that's,
that's where the whole living a conscious life comes into play.
Because if you're aware of these things and these, um,
forces that are pushing you into imbalance,
then you can bring yourself back into balance. And, um,
I wouldn't say that I needed to do mushrooms to be an effect,
uh, an effective meditator, but it made it a lot easier.
It made it a whole lot easier. Yeah. And uh,
I always say that like, uh, if you do a, a, a maze and you do it,
like if you have a maze and there's the mouse on one end and you're trying to
get to the cheese in the middle,
going through the maze from the mouse to the cheese is harder because that's the
way the maze is designed.
But to do the maze backwards a lot of times is easier because you can kind of
see the path that you're supposed to take. And that's what I always describe,
um, large dose psychedelics as it's, it's like doing the, the medi.
What meditation is, is going from the mouse to the cheese,
and the psychedelics are like, no, no, you're gonna,
you're gonna get to a place of oneness and we're gonna help you.
So it's doing the, the maze backwards,
but in doing the maze backwards and being forced through the psychedelics now,
you know the path. So it's that much easier to get back to that point of B.
Right.
And it's almost like there are doorways in the mind or, or,
or subconscious aspects of the mind that are just hard to remember
if we haven't experienced them since we were kids, or hard to, hard to identify.
And so it's almost like there in my mind, there,
there's more doorways that are available once I've had certain experiences and
had had a memory of those types of, uh, of,
of experiences that were subconscious and very hard to put words on.
It's like you couldn't possibly, um, tell someone what, what it's like to,
um, go to a deeper place where they remember their oneness with, with their,
with their parents, or, I mean, you, you can tell people to open their heart,
but if they don't know what opening their heart is, also,
it's like that's something that is, is progressive lifting of layers of,
of baggage and blockages that we, we don't always understand. And, and,
and for me, it's like now I, I feel there's a,
there's an energy center in my heart and I feel that opening and I can feel when
it's, when it's not opened, um,
more because I know what it's like when it is opened. Yeah. So if, if I hadn't,
if I hadn't fully gone back to that place, it's harder to,
to understand the doorways to the heart opening. Yeah,
Yeah, yeah. A like a hundred percent, you know, one, and you could just,
you could put it in the simplest terms to be like, if you, uh,
if you wanna get to a place and you're driving in your car and you've never been
there, you may take a lot of wrong turns before you get there,
but then once you've gotten there,
it's easier to get there because you're a member of the route. And,
uh, you know, you know what roads not to take, like for me, a big,
big blocker when I was meditating, uh, and the,
some of the most, um, the deepest and,
and most intense meditations I had ever done to that point was when I was taking
the yoga classes. And, uh,
our teacher always said that you do the asana so that you can prepare the body
for meditation. So basically you're, you're, you know,
limbing yourself up and moving yourself all around so that you can sit static
comfortably for long periods of time. And, um, so we would do that.
We would do classes, uh, you know, Asana classes,
and then sit and meditate and then do different methods of meditating.
And one of the wrong turn roads that I would always take at the beginning
on my, on my drive to meditation was always a wrong left down.
I'm hungry. What am I eating? And when am I eating it? And getting over that.
And I know now as a ka a person, you know, that, that, that, you know,
that's in my nature.
And it's like meditating is like going to that place of oneness
that we all come from,
and taking all of the layers of yourself and just putting them down on the
way. And some of the ones that you go to put down, like they,
they like stick to your hand. You try and put it down,
but it won't go off your hand. And it, and that was, for me, it was always like,
I'm hungry. When am I going to eat? What time's the class over?
And then it would just, just spiral from that one,
I'm hungry down this whole path of thought. And then I'd be like, listen,
listen here, dummy, you're here to not think.
And what have you just done for the past 10 minutes is think intensely down this
path. Put it away, dude. You know, like you said, put that like your,
your stream of thoughts as a river flowing in front of you. And when a,
when a thought arises,
acknowledge it and put it back in the river and then let it,
let it go on its way.
I'll say that there's, it's a little bit more mysterious for me in the sense of,
um, having an intention and having, um,
some degree of will always present that I have a will to
quiet my monkey mind and I have a will to kind of find a better direction for my
life.
So there's always some orientation that I have when I sit down to meditate
that is like, I, I, I want to get through this.
And I feel like sometimes it's more helpful if I do have something in mind,
not that I'm dwelling on that thing. Mm-hmm.
But it's almost like I'm putting out a call to my higher guides, like,
this is where I want you to bring me back into balance on. Yeah.
And then coming back to a sense of wanting some,
some healing seems to keep me, um, able to receive more of the, the,
the messages.
And I'm not sure if that's what the va the value of meditation is for a lot of
people. Is the receiving of something, um, like,
like the prayer that was sent out is being received back in the,
in the meditation because you have the open mind that's open and receptive to
that, to that information or that, that that subconscious package of,
of information or feeling, that seems to be like a download. Yeah. The download.
Is that your experience?
Yeah. Well, I, I think that there's, uh, you know,
meditation could be used for so many different things.
And I think that is definitely one of the ways, you know, if you have something,
especially if you have something that's big in your life and it, it's,
it's possibly gonna change your life course, you know,
to sit and meditate on it. Um, yeah, definitely. You know, it'll,
it can give you some clarity and, um, you know,
w when you really meditate, you're getting out of the, your,
your mind at the very least is escaping the linear flow
of this space time universe. And it's reaching into, um,
you know, like Edgar Casey would, would talk about the Akashic records and,
and so many people throughout time have talked about this place where, you know,
everything exists. And, uh, you know, I think that that's,
that's the, the time space universe, you know, and,
and things don't happen linearly. Everything is happening at once. And you,
you can take your mind out of this universe and put it into that
universe and see everything and come back, whether you know it or not, you know,
it might come as just an image, uh, you know, uh, and,
and that image represents whatever to you, and then that, that is the download.
Um, but there's so much, like you were saying, the information packet is,
is huge.
And especially when you go from the space time universe into the time space,
and you take like, what could be like a millisecond of a packet,
but it's, it's just to put it into this processor is, is almost,
you know, you, you can't, and, and then furthermore to put it into words,
oh my God, it's so difficult. That's, that's why I enjoy people like, uh,
Alan Watts and Ramdas and their guided meditations
and you know, and I'm sure different people have different ones,
but those guys really work for me when, uh, I don't know,
it's like I'm having a hard time clearing my mind. There's a lot going on.
Some of the, the ways that they put meditating, it just,
I can't help but, but get there quicker at the very least.
Yeah. Yeah.
That's something that Carl Ruckert would always recommend is anybody who's gonna
do any kind of channeling, where they're receiving some higher source of,
of information they, um, receiving from a higher source. They,
she recommends tuning, which is looking at spiritual materials. Something that,
you know, will raise your vibration just by being exposed to it. So you try to,
they,
they would always do that before the law of one sessions and their channeling
sessions. They have some existing body of very highly charged positive
spiritual information that they would, they would just read it,
they would expose themselves to that and kind of get back into that space and
then, and then be, they'd be more receptive to more of that kind of information.
Yeah,
Yeah. Yeah. It was like, uh, like you were saying,
you putting that calling out there, you know, you, you,
you're using that material. And for me, that, that book that I was showing, I,
I have this in my bag almost all the time, just cause, um,
it, it's like that it's, it's almost like a talisman or something, you know?
It's, it's got that energy in it, and by keeping that energy near you,
it just, you know, tunes. Just like Carla said it a hundred percent.
Hold it up again. What's the author?
Uh, it, it's, um,
the Secret Oral Teachings in Tibetan Buddhism sect by Alexandra,
David Neil,
David Neil and Lama Young den,
I think it is how you say it, but there's the title.
Nice. And there's the authors. This camera always wants to find a face.
Thanks.
It's finding that face. I can't believe it. It's fine. The bad face.
Yeah. We'll get that in the description notes too, after this is
Okay. Yeah. But I mean, there's so many a,
a and you were talking about the tools earlier. There's so many, um,
amazing books and teachers and chemicals, you know,
it's just a matter of, um, finding and utilizing the right ones.
Like for us, D m t, uh, my friend Frank, who I can,
I can thank Frank for so many things in my life.
Like everything from showed me different music to,
uh, he was the first one that suggested mushrooms and, uh,
showed me the the joys of T h c. Um, not the first time I smoked,
but definitely showed me different, you know,
instead of just smoking and getting high, but like,
just actually enjoying it and doing all that. But he came to me,
he came to me one day and he had this stuff,
and he was like's called D M T. And so, um,
I read, um, I think it's called str,
uh, it's, it's called DM T Spirit Molecule, uh, by a, uh, Dr.
Um, Rossman. Str, yeah, that's it. Yeah. Straussman. And, uh,
he was like the only guy that was ever given a grant by, you know,
the typical powers to study it under, you know, considered medical conditions.
And that was kind of intense what he did.
He put people on the IV and gave them high doses for period Yes periods,
which is a relatively hard thing to ex achieve that kind of experience just from
smoking it again and again. Um,
But yeah. Yeah, well, yeah, exactly,
because your body responds to it too quickly.
That's why something like ayahuasca, they bind it with, um, uh,
now I'm gonna, I'm gonna butcher this completely cuz I don't have the
Actual Yeah, the mai is the ayahuasca.
Yeah. The mono mono oxidizing acetone or something like that. Yeah.
Monoi and oxidase inhibitors. Yeah,
That's it. Yeah. So when you, when you take D M T into your system, your,
your system releases the, uh, MAOS and, uh,
that soaks up the D M T so that you don't have too much of it floating around in
your system. And the a oi inhibits your body from releasing those. So it,
it prolongs that experience. Um,
can't even imagine what it was like intravenously. Yeah. We,
when Frank said, you know, um, and he had brought so many things into my life,
like, um, uh, monoatomic Gold, you know, I,
I don't know if you've ever heard of that. Yeah.
Take experiment with that for time. Yeah,
Yeah, yeah. And he brought that and, and it was just like this salty sludge,
and he was like, we'll, we'll do a spoonful a day, you know,
until we run out of the bottle. And it was like, okay, you know, and, uh,
you know, that didn't kill us and mushrooms didn't kill us and, and the tea,
you know, so he had a pretty good track record up until this point. And, uh,
So what I did wanna, oh, uh, I'll let you finish your thought. Go ahead.
Uh, well, I was just gonna say, he told me about dmt and,
and after reading that book, I was like, yeah, let's try that.
Yeah. So, do you feel like on the D M T experience,
this is looking directly into time space, the metaphysical dimensions,
the astral planes?
I, I think that like meditation, it can, it can take on many forms.
It can be focused, it can be simply returning to the one, uh,
you know, the oneness that we all came from. I think it really, um,
set and setting has a lot to do with it. Uh,
and not just set and setting of the, the place that you're in,
but set and setting of your mind, you know, where you are going into it. Um,
when we first started, um, what's the best word?
Cultivating, extracting it from a, from a, a tree bark.
Um, w we, we were, you know,
we had done mushrooms and we had talks like these talks,
um, you know,
but a lot of the people were just kind of doing it like a rollercoaster ride.
And even we were, you know,
we would do mushrooms and we wouldn't sit there and be like, yes,
I'm gonna become one with the universe again. But it just happened, you know,
you didn't maybe know how to put it. Um, and then we,
when we started doing, uh, D M T, it was, it was just,
it, it, it's, it was amazing. I mean, it, it,
it puts you in a place of nirvana and it can have amazing visuals.
So, you know, we were kind of like, this is amazing.
And when you'd come out of it,
you'd come back to reality having been in that place where, uh,
you are one with everything, uh, without really, um,
I mean, obviously it was D M T that did it,
but without actually diving into that aspect of it,
really kind of still using it, like for the rollercoaster ride.
And when people started hearing that we, that we were making it, and that we,
uh, had it, people wanted to do it, and, you know, we would be like, yeah, yeah.
All right, we'll, we'll do it. Come on over on this day and, and we'll do it.
And people were enjoying it.
And then the words spread and we started getting more and more people that were
kind of doing it more as a, as a rollercoaster ride.
As we were starting to lean into the,
there's a lot more to this than amazing visuals and a and a
cool feeling at the end. And we got to that tipping point where, uh,
we were out drinking, uh,
we were out at a bar and we met friends out and it was like friends of a
friend's type deal.
And we had taken our friend on a D M T journey and he explained it to
his friends and we were all out hanging out. And, uh,
and for whatever reason they couldn't do it cuz we said, we should,
we should sober up and tomorrow we'll do it. And for whatever reason,
probably the booze they talked us into, uh, doing it that night,
and we went back and, and did it that night and nothing happened.
And I mean, we, we took more than enough. Uh, you know,
at that point we had done it a a bunch of times, a whole bunch of times, and we,
nothing happened.
And Frank and I looked at each other and we were like, this isn't a toy.
You know, this isn't, this isn't a rollercoaster ride, this is a tool, you know,
this is something to be used. And then from then on, we, we,
whenever anybody would say that they wanted to do it, we would treat it such,
you know, okay. Uh, I would always recommend fasting.
I always recommend fasting for any, any kind of journeys. I think that, uh,
an empty stomach is, is the best way to go into a lot of those things. Um,
but we would always say like, you know, if you wanna drink,
then we'll do it after, but don't drink before, you know, we can,
we can smoke some weed or, uh, you know, some tobacco or whatever you want,
but don't, like, we're not going into it drunk. We're not, uh, you know,
it's not a rollercoaster ride and you'll know why when you do it.
And then we would set 'em up, you know, and, uh, we got,
we got a pretty good method down by the end. I mean,
we had done it so many times that we found the best way that we could find
to,
to help somebody experience it in the least intrusive way so that they would
have their fullest experience. Whereas, uh, you know,
we didn't, we didn't wanna be impacting what their experience was gonna be.
And then we would ask them at the, at the end, if you'd like to share,
please share 'em. You know, we had a little,
a little journal that people would write in, uh, and we would, you know,
go over, uh, the, the, the journalings of the other people and all that.
And it was, it was cool. You really gotta feel,
cuz I can tell you what my experience is, but to,
to do it with, um, I mean, by the end
had to have been at least a hundred different people we did it with.
And to hear the perspective of all the other people, it, it,
it was, uh,
it was cool to hear such a unified description most of
the time. And for you to realize, like, yeah, you know, it's, it's not,
it, it's not just me. You know, it's out there that, that place is out there,
that place or in here, you know what I mean? Like,
depending on how you're looking at it. But it's, it was universal.
Everybody was coming back with the same type of explanations and,
uh, you know, same type of visuals that would lead them into the journey. Um,
but that,
that feeling of bliss and oneness once you got there was pretty universal.
Do you think it's something where there's ever an element of the subconscious
expectations leading a person to have a particular kind of experience? Um, I,
I mean, I, for for me, I was completely flabbergasted.
What I had a very powerful D m T experience by, um, all that I saw.
It was like going to a new place so that where there's unique visuals that I
would not have imagined up, I couldn't have imagined.
Yeah. I, I think that, uh, cause towards the end we would, um,
we would try and describe it as little as possible to people, um,
that way we didn't color their experience. Um,
uh, because yeah, I think that you can, I think that you can induce a certain,
certain level of it. It, but once you get to beyond that level,
it's you, you're, you're not inducing it. It's, it's there and it's,
it's inducing that into you as opposed to the other way around. Definitely.
But yeah, if you talk to somebody, um,
like hesitant to say it, but we would always say that, uh,
the visuals were kind of like a, like a kaleidoscope, you know?
And you spin the kaleidoscope and they kind of,
the visuals wove into each other and, and folded into each other in a spiral.
And we would say that to people.
And then we had a couple experiences where the visuals weren't kaleidoscopes
and we're kinda like, okay,
maybe we shouldn't tell people that they're gonna see kaleidoscopes.
Cause it could be, you know, prompting them to, and so we,
we started not telling them, you know, we started telling them more about the,
the, the place beyond,
because everybody was having more or less the same experience. And, uh,
you know, tell 'em about the oneness and the, and the feeling of bliss,
you know, similar to, um, coming off of, uh, psilocybin,
uh, you, you have that feeling of bliss. It's, it's like, you know, like I said,
you went back to the place where we all came from, where everything was okay,
uh, and you decided to have this human experience and then, you know,
you went from there. And the, uh, that always was the same for people.
So we felt, we felt okay describing that vaguely,
but we didn't want to get into the spec specificity of it because we wanted
people to have their own experience.
And do you think that this has helped numbers of people, um,
who are materialistic or atheistic breakdown some of those walls by having
a realization or something beyond what they thought?
Don't know if,
I mean, everybody's slanted, you know, a little bit differently than others,
but I don't know if I've ever, uh,
went into knowing somebody who was extremely materialistic doing
it with them and then speaking with them afterwards. Uh, you know, all of,
all of my core group of friends that we did it with a lot,
um, you know, we weren't, we weren't very mood materialistic.
Uh uh, nobody was really a sell it one way or the other with whatever religion.
Um, so I don't think there was too much, you know,
hard stances to kind of wobble loose. Right. Um, but again, like I said,
we had friends of friends that did it, um, that, you know,
we would do it with them and then we would never talk to 'em again. You know,
we would never even bump into this person ever again. So may have for them. But,
Yeah, I don't know.
I've heard of a few of those stories from people where it was like, they,
they were, they were broken down and it,
it was almost like their higher self was leading them to this as one of the
tools to break down some. And there's many ways that this can happen.
Near-death experiences are an obvious example.
People who have a near-death experience,
they can program that into their life experience just for the purpose of giving
them a kinda a wake up call. Like,
there's a lot more to this reality than you're acknowledging. Yeah. Taking,
taking spirituality more seriously is almost like the central, um,
reason for all the strong catalysts of crazy experiences in our life.
It seems like e everything is kind of pushing us to go back, look,
look again at the, at the, the potentials of,
of inner seeking and inner work to, to break down, to break loose some of the,
the, the barriers on, on our, on our thinking. Um,
Yeah,
you're gonna experience the same experiences and varying levels of intensity
until you get the lesson to be learned.
Yeah.
Yeah. Definitely.
So what were your most profound or useful or catalytic
experiences you've had with D M T?
Um, well, I mean,
when you, when you do a,
a full dose of it and you break through and you get to that place that everybody
was describing as the same place every time, it's, it's profound. Um,
how I got there a couple times were, was pretty amazing. Um,
and again, like when, when I get to that place,
99% of the time, it, it is, it is, it is in a state of,
of deep meditation where you can have your eyes wide open,
but you're not seeing anything. You're in a place of,
of like, before things start to exist,
you're at that place of oneness where everything, uh, manifests from.
So if you're at the place that everything manifests from,
then nothing has manifested yet. So to me it always seemed like,
um, like a, like a vacuum, you know, like a,
a a lack of everything. But at the same time everything existed,
but in its primordial form, uh,
And potential.
Yeah, pure potentiality. Uh, I love how John haggling put that, uh, you,
he said, um, you know, you go from the,
the macro to the micro to the atomic, to the subatomic,
to the, uh, um, nuclear, I think he said next,
but then he said, but below all that is the sea of pure potentiality.
And that's, that's, I think that's, you know, where, where you go. But I've,
I've gotten there and, um, in so many different ways. Like, I remember, um,
one time as I went into the journey, um, and again,
this is one of the time that I didn't have the kaleidoscopes, and this is, uh,
when I had this experience, I was like,
I gotta stop telling people kaleidoscope.
Cause it can happen in so many different ways. And, um, I, as I,
as I, um, as I took the third hit and I, I sat down,
I started to imagine the silhouette of myself
and within the silhouette was a grid pattern.
And filling each box in the grid was, um,
like video snippets of memories of my life,
all of the memories of my life. And, uh,
as I went into the journey,
I was this silhouette snippet version of myself.
And I just went and shook it all off,
like literally shook it off until I was just an empty silhouette.
All of the memories kind of like a dog shaking off water.
And then I stepped forward into the experience and, uh,
it, it, it, I mean, then I stepped into this, this place where as I was,
as I was getting back to the place of oneness, I, I,
I got rid of the material world and, um, I,
I just kind of manifested in this place with beings
in a circle, but they had no physical form.
I could just tell that these beings were there and, uh, you know,
me, human from earth, just kind of,
and all of the beings just, you know, who's this guy?
Where's, where's this guy from? And I,
I just sat there in their presence and we had a chat.
And as I started to feel myself falling back to earth, um,
I said to him, I was like, well, what do I, you know,
I'm having all these profound thoughts and, and realizations while I'm there,
but I know most of the time when I come back, uh, you know,
a good chunk of them are in me, but they're not consciously in me.
And I was like, what do I take back? What do I take back?
Cause I feel like I'm falling back into my body. And they said, love, uh,
love is it, love is love is what you need to remember. And, uh,
my friends who were there with me said that I literally giggled myself back
to reality saying, love. It's just love.
It's all love. And I was giggling and, uh, they were like, yeah,
you just giggled yourself back to reality saying love. And I was like,
that's what they told me, man. That's that's what I'm supposed to bring back.
Yeah. But that was an extremely impactful moment. Cause you know, my whole life,
my, my parents were saying, follow your heart, you know, and, and, uh,
you know, come from a place of love. You're a good person. So if something, uh,
doesn't seem right to you, then maybe it's not, you know, think about it.
Uh, analyze it, you know, you know, look at life consciously, uh, more or less.
And it was always from this place of love.
And then I go to this other realm and these beings are like, yeah, love.
That's it. And, and, you know, it was kind of nice. Nice. I would,
I would like to ask you, uh, to give me, uh, as,
as long as you'd like to explain it,
I would like to have a summary of what is your grand vision for what you wanna
see being created on the local level, um, and your community on earth.
And to a degree how that maybe would relate to a, a larger community. But,
but just on the personal level, like, what do you want to create and,
and how do you wanna see a, your future unfolding?
Um, well, uh, Alex and I, you know, again,
through random chances came together with each other and have the same, uh,
vision to just wanna help the people around us. Uh, we,
we both have had vastly different lives,
but through these random events that we have come to recognize,
grew as a person, uh, and, and, uh,
wanna,
wanna help people in the world have those experiences because it's so easy to go
through all of life and not, you know, uh, we both know, uh,
people in our lives that, you know, are much older than us,
and then we start talking about this kind of stuff and it,
it never even crossed their path.
And then we start talking to 'em about it, and, you know, next thing you know,
it, it's resonating with them and they're asking what books and what videos and,
and all these things. So, um, it's out there, uh,
and,
and increasingly more obfuscated because of the way society seems to be going.
And, you know, the whole shortening attention spans and, and things like that.
It's, uh,
it's easy to overlook something because it's so simple.
You know, meditating people, you, you tell people, you know,
yeah, meditating's great. You, you, you know, give it a shot, see how it works.
And they're like, oh, I can't meditate. I'm like, Hmm, can you not meditate?
Or have you really not tried, you know, have you not given it? Cause you know,
I used to be one of those, I, you know,
I would sit and I would read a book and maybe meditate and unknowingly meditate,
but I'd be like, man, it's so hard for me to meditate.
But until you have these things brought into your, your view of life, uh,
it's easy to not even know that they exist. And so basically we want to,
um, in the, in the physical sense,
we would like to get a large piece of property that we can for,
for the cliff notes most concise way of putting it.
Essentially have like a retreat that people can go to, to,
uh, to, to,
to look for these things to be helped in any way,
shape or form that we can, you know, I've, uh, done D M T and, uh,
smoked ayahuasca and, and all these different, uh, chemical ways.
Um,
so it's always nice to have someone in the physical realm help you be a guide.
And we would like to be a guide in that way, in the, you know,
have a bookshelf at the place that, you know,
if people come for a week and after day four, they just need a day to chill,
you can just sit and pick up some books because, you know,
there could be one line in,
in a book that you read and it totally changes your life. You know,
for me, the law of one has a lot of those lines.
It has a lot of those lines that makes you think in a different way
that echoes into the whole rest of your life. And basically,
we want to have a place where we can, uh,
help people do that. You know, give the, give the journey,
uh, of, uh,
give the experiences in the journey of life that we have had to other people
in a way, you know, that, that we think could help them.
And as well as having these other people helping us,
because it's never a one-way thing. It's always reciprocal. And,
uh, you know, if ultimately, if that would,
if we got a,
a plot of a hundred acres and somebody got a plot of a hundred acres next to us,
and it just grew one acre at a time until everybody was helping
everyone, I mean, that would be the, yeah, golden, the golden,
uh, um, uh, reward.
Do we think it's gonna happen? I think we can, we can do our part.
I think that we can, we can put into the physical world what,
what we want and try and help everyone in every way that we can around us
and hope that it grows, you know? But you know,
the whole world is subject to every,
everybody else and what the rest of the world wants to do. So the, the whole,
um, what was it, Gandhi,
who said be the change that you would like to see in the universe? That,
that's essentially, you know,
in a nutshell what we would like to do and we would like to do it,
um, you know, on a big, a big piece of property.
Cuz there's just something about this area.
Being from the east coast my whole life, um, when I came out to the mountains,
man, there's, there's just an energy about the, the, this, all of these areas.
I mean, you stand on top of some of these,
these trail heads and you just look at the vastness and all
of the physical things in life can just go by the wayside. And you're, you're,
it's almost like a meditative thing where you're drawn back to that,
that place of oneness. And that's what we wanna do.
We wanna have a place to help people more easily get back to that place of
oneness. You know, you can't, you can't say that I'm not a good meditator,
and every time you try and meditate this thing's going off, you know,
you, you have to, you have to have a place where you can,
it's easier for you to get to that place of bliss. Um, and, and, and that was,
you know, one of the things we always talked about,
make it like one of those places where once you come in,
all of your electronic devices go into like a little basket and that's your
basket. But you know, you get maybe one hour with it a day, uh, you know,
but it's, it's set by you, you know,
how much time do you think you can go without your device?
And then challenge yourself to go a little bit further because these devices are
amazing. You know,
we're using it to communicate with each other and whoever else may be listening,
but they can also drag you away from the reality that
you live in this absolutely astonishing, amazing place.
And that's what we wanna do. We want to give people the opportunity in a,
in a more accessible way to get back to that oneness. So,
you know, get land, get the retreat, um, but even, even on a daily,
just, just live that life and be the example for other people to see it.
Yeah. It's definitely a very common vision that many people have now is to fi
find a way to get back into a very holistic, um,
very positive and aware community that knows what's important
to,
to help people get back to a spiritual place so that there aren't the conflicts
which have plagued so many other kinds of, um, off grid communities.
So many kinds of, uh,
communities which have crumbled due to greed or people having
disagreements about things that don't really matter on the,
on the bigger scale of things.
Really just being able to be in harmony together seems to be the thing that is
most important to make a community actually work in a level where people are
kind of contributing resources to one another freely without there being the
same kind of, uh, economy that there is with, with,
with the world right now where there's, there's debt and it's like, I I, I mean,
everything is running on debt right now, you know, the,
the government itself runs on debt even though it has the authority to wipe out
the debt if it wanted to. But where did that authority get given up to?
It's so bizarre that the world that we've created. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's,
And they write the laws and then the laws are a law because they wrote it on a
piece of paper, like, co calm down buddy. Yeah. Hold on a minute.
I know in my heart that I shouldn't kill someone because that's not good.
But then you get in the subsection four, paragraph 53 sub say, and you're like,
good god, man. How,
how finite do you have to put all of this crap before
it is just that? It's crap. I think that that, uh, the world,
at least this iteration on this planet is living in a place where we are
aggressively being shown more and more every day how we don't wanna live.
And therefore people are seeing that in greater and greater numbers now.
And people are saying, no, I, I don't want to do that anymore. You know, I'm,
I'm 38 and pretty quick on. I was like,
there's some crap going on here that just, it just ain't right.
It's just not natural. And, uh,
I think that more and more people are waking up to that and,
and as society gets a little bit crazier, uh,
people are starting to wake up in bigger and bigger numbers.
And that's exactly why we wanna have the property and the place that we want
because people are waking up in bigger and bigger numbers.
And sometimes it's just, it, it,
it's like your head is being held under water your whole life,
and then you pop up and you're like, what's going on? What, what's happening?
And it,
it would be nice to have a place that people that are starting to starting
to be like, no, I don't want this anymore. And looking elsewhere. Well,
if I don't want this, then what do I want to be a, a beacon of?
This is what it could be. You know? And, and that, that,
that's basically it. I mean, like you said,
to have a community that isn't ruled over by
money, you know, which is just a control mechanism that,
that people that I,
I think that people that aren't comfortable with themselves seek
the control and rule of people around them.
And those are the people that go into, uh,
a lot of times the higher forms of government because the people that want
to help those around them. Uh, and I, I have a, a,
a personal experience where my mom, uh, she is a friend, uh,
where she works and her son went into government
because he was a good guy, a genuinely want to help the world, kind of good guy.
And he got to, um,
I think he was gonna run for governor,
and once he got to a high enough level, he was like, this is nothing gets done.
That this isn't to help people. Like civil service is not civil service. It is,
it is a mechanism that is there to perpetuate itself.
And, and so many people that I've talked to, um, you know, and,
and listened to and kind of read between the lines, they say the same thing. So,
you know, the system that we're in right now, you, you,
I don't think that we're gonna fix the system from within the system.
I think that we're gonna have to do things like start a, uh, a retreat,
you know,
and start a community that lives outside of that system because that system,
it, it's, it's, uh, I think it's, it's, it's in its death rattle.
Personally,
I think that it's that the people that fear a lack of control
and are, are, you know, holding on.
They're holding on so tightly that everything's squeezing out of all the cracks.
And the people that are squeezing out of the cracks, you know,
they may have recently been those people that fear, uh,
a lack of control. And that's why we want to have the retreat to be like, look,
you know, you don't have to control everything. You know,
it doesn't have to be the way that everything is projected in society right now.
It can be more freeform and, you know, loose.
Yeah. Yeah. It's, and it's, it's also, you know,
absolutely shocking to me that now in the state of Colorado we have psilocybin
and D m t legalized as of last November Yeah.
Regulation was passed into law like as of a month or two ago. It's like,
this is a very unusual, unprecedented opportunity that,
that people are in right now with, um, creating, creating new ways of,
of interacting and, and,
and what a spiritual community could actually look like. Of course there were,
you know, the, the natives, the shamans have been using plant medicines going,
going way back. And that was, um, very often a,
a subject of legal disputes in, in this country.
But it seems like universally that people who had legitimate religious claims
were, were winning. And, you know, the, yeah.
Religion has not been doing very well in this country.
I suppose people don't feel, uh, that religion has a lot of credibility,
I think lately. Um, but I think there,
there could be ways people can reshape what they,
what they think of spirituality into something that's more coherent with
scientific understandings and the knowledge that there's, you know, you know,
psychology can merge with science and can merge with spirituality in,
in more natural ways than it has been to help heal a lot of issues.
But right now,
the money and the greed are kind of running a lot of the systems that lead
people to, uh, kind of feel trapped in, in the existing systems.
So I guess we're looking for the exodus to occur and we're looking to help
people in the exodus out of the existing systems, I guess.
Yeah. And that's, that's exactly it. The, the, that's what we want to do.
We want to, you know,
be the lighthouse on the other side of the ocean that shows you where the other
shore is. And you know,
we're not saying that you have to come to the lighthouse, but this is the Sure,
you know, don't crash into it.
Yeah.
Type deal. It's, it's, uh, too, for too long,
too many people have been trying to control the rest or too,
a few people have been trying to control all the rest of the people. And,
you know, religion, no matter how, um,
benevolent it might have been at its roots at some point,
seems to have gotten usurped by this controlling
minority of people and used as a control mechanism. And uh,
you know, even if you, like, like I said earlier,
you read what Jesus actually taught, uh,
it was essentially like gnosticism and he was saying like, you know, it,
it's in all of you, you know, don't,
you don't have to go to this place and give money, you know,
it's in you right now. And anytime, you know, two or more of you gather,
I am there. And you know, these are the kind of things like when,
whenever the Catholic church would, um,
have a council and they would cut books outta the Bible,
I would go read those books. Cause like at at, in its current iteration,
a lot of the religions have become control mechanisms.
So anything that would lead a person to, uh,
self-acceptance, self-awareness, and the,
and to open their eyes and look around and realize, you know, we're all,
we're all in this together. You know,
anything that would really strike at that court, they kind of of took out.
Because when everybody loves everybody,
people are gonna be a lot harder to rule because the person that's going, Hey,
you, you have to do that is gonna be looked at. Like, dude, what? No, no,
I'm sorry. We're we're not doing that. I'm not hurting that person.
Cuz you said, so like,
you told me that that person blew up a pipeline and therefore I gotta hate that
per, come on. You know, like th there's uh, um,
it, it, it's, it's self-perpetuating, but it's losing its steam.
I think the system is losing its steam and the people that are looking for the
stuff that we're talking about are starting to win in big chunks.
And that's why, you know, uh,
psilocybin d m t became legal in Colorado because enough people said, no, no,
no, no, no, there's nothing but good to be had here. You know, the,
the whole I I'm on as acid and I can do anything and blow your head off of the
shotgun. Like, no, that's not how it goes. Okay. Yeah. Uh,
bill Hicks had a good comedy skit about it where he is like, you know,
they're never gonna report that on the news. You know,
man takes L S D and realizes that we're all one consciousness.
Life is just a rollercoaster and you're here to enjoy the ride back to you for
the news. That's never gonna happen. You know, we have to make that happen.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The news here did not even report at all on these laws that that made
psychedelics legal. It seems like there was,
it's like they were afraid to talk about it or something.
Yeah, yeah. Well,
all the best and worst laws happen under secrecy and, you know,
I I painted a pretty bleak picture of government,
but there are some people that are, you know,
out there trying to help people in, in all facets of life. And,
uh, you know, somebody, somebody struck a win, got a big W on that one.
Yeah. Yeah. Um, so we could wrap it up pretty soon.
We've been going for 90 minutes. Do you feel like you are, um,
being strongly guided by, by certain kinds of guides your higher self?
Do you feel like you have, um, a connection to, um,
a source which is the one leading you?
Yeah. Um, you know what, until you ask that question, I,
I hadn't thought of this moment,
but it would've been applicable at the very beginning where you said,
were there moments in your life where you felt a, a major change? And,
uh, in one of the rebirthing, um, sessions,
we were in meditation, we weren't actually, uh, doing the breathing.
We were just meditating. And they were posing questions to us,
and they said, um,
think of the moment when you were in the ether and you chose
to be born.
And that had never crossed my consciousness before that I chose to
be born. And that blew my mind open in a way that, you know,
I w I was, I chose to be here,
and then I would go back and reread some of these like zen books and like, oh,
got it. You know? Yes. Oh, you chose this. You know what I mean? It's not,
it's not just, you're not the victim.
You've chose this to have this experience to learn lessons.
And, um, that that was a huge moment.
And then reading the law of one, you get a, a greater sense of that. Um,
so yeah, I think that that I,
I have a greater sense of the fact that I chose to be here,
to have this experience and that I, you know,
that that is driving me in a sense.
Um, but like, I,
I wouldn't say that I subscribe to any particular like,
uh, aah or God, um, you know, the,
these etheric things. I think that they all represent the same thing.
I think it is love. I think that that it's, it's love in different ways. Um,
uh, and I feel like the, the guides, I think we're all,
we're all our own guide and we're all each other's guide.
And that's why we wanna build this community to help people, you know,
guide each other. Because what else is the point, you know, to just,
just look selfishly? No, I don't think so.
I could share this law one quote. I I, yeah, I loved the,
the challenge danger of the wander,
the souls coming in is that it will forget its mission become mally involved and
must be swept into the mastro from which it had incarnated to avert the
destruction of. So, so the, the forgetting of,
of why we incarnated is really the, the thing that we're wanting to avoid.
And just back
The forgetting of why, and the forgetting of the fact that you chose Yeah.
You know what I mean? That's, that, that was huge for me. And that's exactly it.
And, and the last bit of that line was, uh, the aid, you know, uh,
more and more, uh, both myself and, and Alex, uh,
as we have our conversations, we realized that there,
there's no point in being here at this time on this planet without,
uh, trying to help others for us anyway. Because in in yoga,
uh, they,
they say that there's Bodhi Safa and Bodhi Dharma and you know,
one is the, is the, the person that finds bliss,
finds that connection with the universe and then goes off into a cave in the
mountain and experiences that by themselves for their whole life. And then, uh,
I believe it was Bodhi Dharma,
Bodhi Dharma's the one that goes and they found that place of bliss and
they're,
they're gonna go out and they're gonna help you find that place of bliss.
And that's what their mission becomes.
And I think that we both agree that that is why we're here. We're we're,
you know,
maybe I lived a thousand lives where I was in a cave just blissing out and
becoming able to touch that oneness easier.
And that's fine if that's what mission that you're on at the time,
that's the mission you're on at the time. But now we're not.
Now we're here to help, you know, other people get to that place. And, uh,
you know, that's, that's the whole point of,
of what we wanna do physically in the, in the land,
but also in the whole point of what we do every day, you know? And,
and no one is perfect. I got, uh,
angry just the other night cuz we were trying to, um,
we haven't been able to find the land, so we were like, all right,
well let's just get a smaller property so we're not paying rent anymore and
we're getting something for what we pay. And, uh,
we were like two signatures away from closing on this place right around the
corner from us. And the,
the real estate agent just was ghosting our real estate agent.
And I was like, what? Have some decency, man.
I know that you got another offer, but tell me that you got another offer.
Let's, let's act like humans instead of just blah. And I was like, dude,
what are you doing? Stop. If it was meant to be,
it would be just keep on your journey and don't let that person
influence how you are being, because that,
that's where there are in their journey,
Right? Yeah. Yeah. The lessons never end and they keep on ramping up.
And once our hearts are open, then the job is the hardest one of all,
is to help other people open their hearts and give them the breadcrumbs on their
journey.
Yeah. And in the long one, did they say, uh,
I won't get the quote a hundred percent, but they said like, it's not,
you're not,
you don't become impervious to going from full love and open-heartedness to
being full selfish.
You're actually more easily swayed from one extreme to the other.
You know, like flipping the coin. Yeah.
It's easier to go from loving other cells wholly to go to,
to be in the other extreme. You know, you're,
you're never impervious from that.
You're always learning the lessons and that the lessons become more intense as
you push yourself to love others. You have more and more intense examples of,
no, just love yourself. Go, just love yourself, be selfish. And you're like,
wait a minute, I've already been tempted this way. I'm going that way though.
It's the law of responsibility. Yeah, yeah,
Yeah.
Well, yeah, this has been a really fantastic conversation.
I thank you so much for taking this time to have this conversation and I guess
we'll keep on seeing you on the law of One Calls,
which we've got one come up tomorrow and on 16th people can join that also.
So,
And then, uh, are you gonna do, is everybody, uh, in the,
in the private panel gonna do like a little bio?
I think that that's cool to get to know the people that are, that are talking.
Yeah. Actually, I can stop the recording now and we'll let other people, um,
share here. We're in this call right now, so we'll before
You stop recording, I, I do have to say, uh, uh, thank you, uh, the,
the,
my journey has been impacted so much by the things that you do and that you are
a true, great asset to this journey that we're all on right now.
Thank you very much.
Thanks. Thanks.