WEBVTT
All right.
Welcome guys to another law of One Deep Dives.
Today is a pretty fun discussion we'll be having on the
subject of the catalyst archetypes, catalyst of mind,
catalyst of body, catalyst of spirit, which are the three,
um, card number three, number 10,
number 17 in the major arcana.
And these are a part of the, the la the latter portion
of the law of one books that they just started
to scratch the surface on.
But this was one of the ways that do, that
Raw had recommended studying these archetypes of mind,
bodying spirit was to study each in the triad, the each
of the catalysts that our catalyst of mind, bodying spirit.
We previously just did the, the matrices of mind,
bodying spirit two months ago,
and then we did the potentiators
of mind, bodying and Spirit last month.
So you can catch up if, if you go back to those episodes.
And so, we'll doing some recap now since we are recovered,
the catalyst of the mind, which is called the Empress.
And the interesting thing that I found, you know,
that we can continue to, to ponder on is the relationship
between the conscious and unconscious mind as it relates
to the catalyst of the mind.
And we could, we could see if there's anything similar here
with the nature of the body
and spirit that we can draw comparisons to.
But the, the, the, the interesting thing that, that we seem
to have arrived at with the way in which
thoughts are catalyzed into allowing us to have experiences
of thoughts where, where, where is the, where is the,
where's the seed that initiates thought?
Where is that actually coming from?
And raw puts continued emphasis.
This is not actually coming from the conscious mind,
selecting thoughts so much
as it is coming from an unconscious mind, offering a sea
of potentials and then,
and then bubbling up from the unconscious
and unrational the non-rational side of ourself
in, in our, in our mental experiences,
which can be also experiences of sensations and,
and other things coming in can relate
to the catalyst, I suppose.
But that's, but the, but where,
but these sensations are bubbling up in a way that
that becomes known to the mind as the catalyst.
And then the catalyst is what's chosen just
as it happens with the body.
We're having all these different things going on around us,
and we're not really focusing on most of them.
It's when something that is bubbling up into our potentials
of awareness through an unconscious mechanism is then
chosen, uh, because it,
because the catalyst is, is perceived,
and then the experience can be,
can occur once the catalyst is perceived, then we can,
we can apply the, the, the archetypal appreciation
of these things as they enter into our awareness.
And the archetypes are the ways in which we use these
experiences and potentials for experience
to their fullest in order to become more like the,
the one infinite creator more, more in alignment
with the archetypical mind, which is more of the, the,
the foundational fundamental building blocks of,
of a blueprint for our evolution.
That, that every one of our experiences loosely,
uh, reflecting.
But the archetypal reflection is, is that, which is like
the, the song The Purified, at one point, they,
they said it's like reaching the, the, the joyful diddy
and the deepen referring more to the, the musical nature
of this, of this experience.
Um, do you guys have any
thoughts on the nature of catalyst itself?
You know, what, we, when we studied the catalyst
of the mind, um, the subjective nature of it,
I think always fascinates me.
And the fact that like, Nick
and I might have same thing happen to us,
but we can have a really different experience of it,
which means that the catalyst itself doesn't really have
this sort of objective nature.
Like this thing is always catalyst.
It's like, no, it literally, it's, it's the catalyst
that you make of it.
And so the process by which the unconscious sort of surfaces
these potentials, um, I'm curious as to what
that relationship is sort of going back
to maybe even the matrix in its predispositions.
And so the potential catalysts have to be some sort
of reflection of things to which we might be resistant.
And I mean, maybe, for lack of a better way to put it,
but I would say that all catalysts seems to present sort
of on the surface as something that we, we may not, um,
you know, welcome entirely.
Um, though I think that to change our relationship to it
and to understand it at this level actually, um, will, uh,
fundamentally shift the catalyst that's available to us
by simply seeing it as opportunity.
But still, I think that the potentials that can arise have
to have something to do with what still needs work,
what still needs to be released,
Right?
And, and on some level, it is the direction of the will
that is leading to the type of dipping, into the potentiate,
the dipping into the potential.
And then out of that sea of infinite potential comes
a lesson that is from, seemingly from an infinite design,
an infinitely intelligent design that is
beyond our conscious ability to, to comprehend the, the,
the depth of how that is what we chose.
But at some level, I think it's always our choice.
Exactly. At some level, we do get it right.
Like the whole thing is, is already clicked in
and, and complete.
That's why we selected that catalyst.
We just have to then sit with it and figure out why we did
and what are we resistant to.
Right. Yep.
I, I, and I might as well share my screen now
and we can start discussing some of these, these symbols,
because I, I so love that the, you know, I've been wanting
to talk about the Wheel of Fortune
more for, for quite a while.
'cause it's, it's such a beautiful symbol that you have
seemingly, uh, um, uh, up, up and down left
and right, uh, devil and,
and UBIs, I guess, is that the, the Doghead entity?
I think so. There, there seems to be, these,
Looks like it, like a highly
detailed version of it. Maybe
These, these ongoing cycles of,
of potentials for experience.
And it just seems as though it's,
it's continuously speaking about a kind of balance, a kind
of cyclical ability to see the completeness
of every experience and,
and define the balance through, you know, each
and every experience coming back at us in equal measure so
that we can have the variety that allows us
to appreciate the, the completeness, the perfection
and everything that, that,
that was why we held onto something
and hadn't released something
that we were needed to, to work on.
We needed to see that in a fuller perspective, uh, uh,
standing back or standing up, up above it.
Maybe from this, this vantage point
as the maybe the arche archetypal way
of approaching this, this wheel of fortune.
I have. It's, go ahead. It's, this is more contextual.
Um, but I was thinking about this ahead
of the call today.
The OG glyphs were the, uh,
effectively the written word, right?
That was, I mean, e uh,
Egypt didn't have a written language per se, right?
They didn't have letters,
character driven language, basically. It was,
Yeah, it's like picture driven language. Yeah.
Right. So if they did at the time,
presumably have both, let's say that
they would've also had imagery, do we think
that this is the, the form in which these would,
would have been delivered and still constructed?
Do you think that raw would've preferred to imagery
to words?
Well, I think that the whole,
a picture is worth a thousand words comes into play
because the, um, one
of the coolest descriptions I ever heard of, uh,
I can't remember who it was,
but the guys that were decoding the Rosetta Stone, uh, one
of the guys was hesitant to turn in what he thought it,
the translation was for the Egyptians, because,
and I've said this before, for, for
like the English language,
the letter carries the phonetic value,
the word carries the idea,
and then the sentence carries the complex idea,
or the, the word carries the, the noun, you know,
it carries the particular articles that make up the idea.
Um, and he said that he felt like the
hieroglyphs, the glyph itself was an idea.
And then when you start expanding them out, they turn into
much more complex ideas so that you can have,
you could have a whole sentence,
you could actually have like a whole paragraph just,
just describing why the bird has its wings around the head.
And that entire complex idea to the,
to the ones who know it is embedded into your mind
just from seeing that little image.
And to just think from top to bottom of this thing,
how much symbology
or symbolism, if we knew all of it, the amount of data
that we would get, the, the, the, the, you know what I mean?
The mental influx of what they're trying to get across with
such a simple picture,
Perhaps, uh, or I would even hope so.
Um, and perhaps maybe, maybe we could consider
benefiting from the advisor input from an Egyptologist
or somebody who has studied hieroglyphs so extensively that
to your point, Nick, that they can see maybe a whole panel
and put together a much more complex,
you know, thing than we might.
But the reason that I ask this is that raw also explains
that the initiatic path, such as it was deployed to
the priests in Egypt, is very much a question
and answer driven process, which of course,
Don got to engage in.
And as I pointed out
or lamented a few times in the past,
we don't get to do that.
We get to sit here and ask the questions,
but of course, we're the ones also
answering them doing our best.
And we're doing, so by, to your point, Nick, looking at
symbolism that doesn't have the same cultural,
you know, anything to us really.
So we, we can only derive what we can get out of this,
what RAW has specifically said about any one type
of quality in any one image.
So if, if a star tends to mean this,
or if a scepter tends to mean that, then we like to say,
okay, then let's have it mean that in every image.
And I think that that's probably the safest way
that we can start to construct some sort of a, a replicable,
you know, comprehension for the images
that were not looked at by bra,
and yet their main method of teaching, of saying, okay,
contemplate these and then come to us with your supposition.
You come to us and say,
I think it means this, or does it mean that?
And then we'll kind of, you know, bring you along
that whole back half of
that process is obviously unavailable to us.
And, um, so anyway, I was, um, just wanting to know
or think, you know, see what you guys thought about whether
or not Raw would do something, um, with words, which is
what they did, obviously with, with Don and Carla and Jim.
So I mean, it, I guess they, I did also do that
They were also very specific in saying
that this logo chose a tongue, which
flips the whole paradigm on its head.
Because if you were, if you were a civilization
that spoke telepathically, you would,
I would put the whole idea into your head at one point.
You don't have to break it down linearly, find the words
to make it chronologically fake.
Makes sense. I think it's a big portion of why we are
so wrapped up in time,
even though like quantum physicists are finding that,
you know, time might just be a construct of this, this very
tight location in space,
and that they're finding universes where, uh, dimensions
where it flows backwards and it's cyclical and all that.
I mean, they're, they're quantifying that now
with quantum physics,
but Raw was saying it back in the eighties, like, yeah,
you were chosen to have a tongue,
which just basically makes, I think it makes
for an exponential growth in
how Catalyst can affect us,
because we can't just boom the idea over to somebody.
We've gotta really think it through,
and then we gotta put it in words
and we gotta lay it out like that.
Whereas if, if I could just shoot, you know,
make it something as simple as a grocery list,
if I wanted Alex to pick something up on the way home,
I could just beam the list,
which would probably be the images of what we want
and not the words, you know what I mean?
Yeah. And sos this is, we're On Earth
where the tongue was chosen.
And that, I think that has a big part of it.
They're trying to take a telepathic language
that they were teaching and put it into something that
tongue worded individuals have to get.
Yeah, it's interesting that, you know,
everyone has their own conscious, subconscious processing
of, of every experience,
but it's, it, I think it just speaks more to the value
of the veiling that there, there was a strong desire
for there to be greater separation
between what's going on in the unconscious
and what's going on in the conscious mind, so
that there's more freedom
and flexibility for playing with, with
what we could do with tools.
Tools is another thing that
they said with the disposable thumb.
Because, because when you're focused more externally
and you've, you've created a, or a book
or something, you've created something that is this,
this package of mystery for other people to try to break
through the veil and see where is this actually coming from?
That, that increases the willpower
to know that which is unknown.
And it's also reminds me, again, of the poker game that you,
we talk about that, that, that where you don't really know
the, the, the hand of the other person.
You don't know their cards
because you don't see inside their mind.
You don't see exactly what's going on inside their mind.
You can only choose to see what they're laying out
so far in front of you.
And if it's, if it's a lot of junk, you can still learn
to love better through seeing only junk
and saying, regardless of what, what,
what you're laying down, I'm
gonna love you no matter what it is.
So, so there's always these added, um, growth processes
that are necessary when we're having a little bit more
separation between our communication.
Uh, yeah, that I definitely agree with.
There's this whole opening up, you know, vortex
and filling it with lighter information.
And I think that we do that in a lot of ways.
Um, I just, and you guys know, I'm sort of a broken record,
and I, it's always daunting when you pull these up
and I'm looking at them, and once again, like the catalyst
of the body here, there are 9 million things going on in
there, and 8 million of them are maybe relevant in Germane,
and, and actually they're with a purpose
and actually mean something.
And, you know, we're gonna be able to find six
of 'em based on things that RAW has, you know, referenced
or the devil, you know, we can look at the other card
that it's in and try to figure out why would it be here.
And it's like all speculative in such a, a complex
card that has an image that has no explanation that RAW has,
has given us, you know, to understand it.
So it, you know, it's speculative,
but I would, you know, I think I have a better shot at
understanding the catalyst of the body
as a concept complex than I do understanding the constituent
components of these images like this,
because they do not, you know, build a gestalt for me.
Never have, like, none of them make sense
until we dive into them.
And obviously all the ones that Raw went through,
it's like you were able to see exactly what Raw was saying
and exactly what some of the meaning is, you know,
otherwise, but without that sort of explanation
and without a raw to go ask, um,
they literally could not mean less to me.
Like there's just, they, they don't like inspire a thought
or a feeling or a, like in anything.
They just, they just look like gobbledygook on, you know,
literally that's, they just, there's no meaning
that I can infer outside of again,
what Ron's already given us.
So we're gonna do that. We
Need to get started. Yeah, yeah.
Time to get started.
Let's dive into this and start pulling, you know,
at Thread and see where it goes.
Yeah. So it, yeah, it's very funny that it, it,
it is a challenge and it's definitely many year, uh,
long journey to appreciate the nature of all, uh,
archetypal aspects of evolution, which is really,
it's overlaid with, with astrology.
And that's, that's an ongoing mystery for people
to understand the influences
and the variety of influences of the cyclical natures
of the planet spinning around.
And everything is so subtle,
you can't really put your finger on it
until you start really getting deep over time
and appreciating that, oh yeah,
this happens when this planet is in this position in this
house, because my birth chart being this way.
You can see those things in every archetypal system
very gradually by, by exploring with your, your feelings
and your, and your thoughts around it.
Um, but,
but I, I thought it, it'd be a good part, uh, to start out
with something about the catalyst of the mind,
which we did cover, which is a,
a very clear example of what we're talking about.
Where a symbol is, is is clearly explained
by raw, um, the bird here is a, a very prominent, uh,
symbol in 93, uh, session 93 point 10.
Um, Don was asking about the meaning of this bird
when we're talking about the catalyst of the bind.
And Don said the bird, I'm guessing might be a messenger.
The two paths depicted by the position of the wings
bringing catalyst, which could be used
to polarize on either path, meaning surface to self
or service to others paths.
Is this in any way? Correct. And Ross said this,
it is a correct perception that the position
of the winged creature is significant,
the more correct perception of this entity
and its significance is the realization that the mind, body,
spirit complex is having made contact
with its potentiated itself,
now beginning its flight towards that great logos, which is
that which is sought by the ept.
So this also brings us back a little bit to the, the fact
that the bird was in a cage and,
and the first archetype, that consciousness
that was unmoved, it was consciousness of itself,
consciousness without anything feeding it
or, or drawing it forward.
It is, it is unmoved.
And, and now this catalyst represents the consciousness,
I think, which is beginning to be able to fly
back to the logos, back to the heart
of love, the heart of self.
And, and this is the beginning of the flight.
And so you hear it, it's interesting to think about the,
the, the way it's looking from eye to eye.
It's kind of, she's got it held up with,
with its wing stretched out, looking straight at her,
and she's looking straight at it.
And it's like, what, what is this thing?
What is this thing that that could, could draw me back
to the heart of the creator, to the heart of love from this,
from this one way of perceiving the flight back?
And, and then Ross says, further, the nature
of the winged creature is echoed both
by the female holding it
and the symbol of the female upon
which the figure's feet rest.
That is the nature. There's a moon,
a crescent moon symbol here at the bottom.
Um, the nature of the winged creature is echoed both
by the female holding it
and the symbol of the female
upon which the figure's feet rest.
That is the nature of catalyst is overwhelmingly
of an unconscious unconsciousness.
Uh, unconsciousness represents the feminine coming from
that which is not of the mind,
and which has no connection with the intellect,
as you call it, which precedes
or is concomitant with catalytic action.
All uses of catalyst by the mind
are those consciously applied to catalyst
without conscious intent.
The use of catalyst is never processed fermentation,
ideation, and imagination.
So it seems like the key here is
that there's something we're dealing with that is
before we have thoughts about it
before we're choosing to apply mentation ideation
and imagination to it.
And this is the heart of catalyst is, is
that which is coming out from this, um,
this infinite potential of the potentiator,
that which is potentiated.
Potentiated means it can be given more strength
or power or potential.
It's, it's, it's an, it's charged by our,
by our will in some way.
And then this bird is, is symbolizing this, um,
this flight that we're taking.
Well, it, it, to me, it, every time I've read this,
it's just screaming the, uh, the
mind body spear complex is having made contact
with this potentiate itself.
It's like the feminine, unconscious mind, body spear complex
is becoming aware of the fact that,
you know, we're, we're in this great experiment
and going to move forward.
And like at the very beginning,
before you start to ask any of the questions,
that would be the potentiate itself.
Like, you're, you're, you're, you're there, you're about
to answer the questions, and then you start asking the
questions, and then you start moving through life.
Yeah. Because I think that when they said that the,
the female upon which the figure rests its feet,
I don't think they're talking about the moon.
I think they're talking about the whole time they're talking
about the bird as the figure, as the entity
and the bird is resting its feet on the female I see.
Which is representative of the unconscious.
That's right. Yeah. Yep.
Because the half moon at her feet represented instability.
I think that was a different Yeah,
that was a different question.
We q and a about it. Yeah. Yeah. That we, that we covered.
And he said it re it represented an uns shaky
platform to be standing on.
Right. Something like that.
And, but, but they said that it would not be incorrect
to call it equivalent to the,
the feminine moon mm-hmm. Crescent, Crescent moon,
Right? Yeah.
Yep. Oh, Yeah. It's an unconscious thing
where it comes from.
Mm-hmm. Whole idea being that you're supposed to wake up
and eventually evaporate this veil
that was specifically put in place to create catalyst so
that you would have something to do.
I mean, effectively we've created a loop here.
Like the whole idea of the veil was so that we could
produce more catalyst
and more, um, more progress, I suppose,
have greater, deeper experience.
I mean, I think all that's pretty easy, obviously.
I mean, it's easy to understand
how veiling consciousness would create just oodles
and oodles of confusion, obviously.
Mm-hmm. Which is just, you know, pretty much incessant, um,
opportunity for, for growth.
I mean, that's all confusion is,
is literally just an opportunity to sit there
and feel stupid and, and try to figure something else out
and try to be a little bit less stupid about, you know,
the nature of the self.
Yeah. But I like that it says that it's pretty much all
unconscious because it's, I think it's our biases
that again, that make it catalyst, which I have to wonder
that, is there an alignment
or is there a state at which you, you arrive
where you are basically free of, of catalyst?
Probably not in this lifetime, obviously,
or even in a physical in incarnation.
But if Catalyst is always unconscious
and only a function of being veiled,
then there are obviously states of being and,
and, um, you know, ways of being conscious
and evolving that don't involve veil
or don't involve catalyst in the same way.
I mean, catalyst is like lessons, right?
And I mean, we're never gonna stop experiencing,
but, you know, I don't know.
Is there a difference between, you know, sort
of remedial lesson work
and actual experience, sort of like, you know, sending joy
to the Godhead versus like literally just sitting in a
classroom trying to pull your head out of
where you've had it stuck for
however many lifetimes, you know, are those the same thing?
Is it the exact same thing?
It's, it's very fascinating how that could be.
We got a comment actually from Sandra who said, I'm getting
that the catalyst archetypal are
teachers for questions and answers.
Relationship embodiment of Catalyst teacher excites me.
What do you think? Yeah, yeah.
The, the, the teacher in the classroom is everything
that's coming at us, it would seem, and,
and if that's pure joy sent back to the creator,
that could just be a more advanced lesson.
I feel like there's more joy later on.
I feel like a lot of the channel teachings are really about
this remedial approach
to get an unconscious population on earth to wake up.
And I think that a lot of the joy
and, you know, the, the density of love, for example,
is the fourth density, and we're not there yet.
And you know, there's a reason why those things are not
as prevalent in our experience or in most of our experience.
So anyway, I'm not, I'm not necessarily pulling them apart
or saying that there is definitely a difference,
and yet I kind of am also that I don't know that,
what do you suppose raw considers catalyst?
Well, let's continue. Alright.
The very next question was, I would like, if possible,
an example of the activity we call catalyst
of mind in a particular individual undergoing this process.
So they, he wants an example of
what would be a catalyst of the mind.
Could ra give an example of that?
And Ross says, all that assaults your senses is catalyst.
So in other words, the entire manifest creation
as it's coming to you is catalyst for you.
We, in speaking to the support group
through this instrument, offer catalyst the configurations
of each and the group of body offer catalyst
through comfort, discomfort in the group of body.
So I guess the way in which you're sitting on your chair is
a form of catalyst, is what they're saying.
In fact, all that is unprocessed.
Oh, wait, he's, he's saying that the configuration
of each individual, uh, within the group of three
offer catalyst through comfort,
discomfort. 'cause he calls 'em this, oh,
The configuration of body, I Think is what Yeah.
Of body. And he's calling that group the body
Of each in the group Yeah.
Configuration body. And each one has comfort
and discomforts, and they're bringing their biases too.
That's interesting though, because the question was
specifically about catalyst of the mind, right? Yeah.
Yeah. I think he thinks we understand.
It's a, it's answered with the first sentence.
He's like, yeah, everything's a catalyst
done, question answered.
Wouldn't perceptions of comfort still be in the mind?
Yeah, that's what I was actually just gonna say, is
that just because we might be feeling it physically,
I'm not entirely sure that that means
that it's not still mental catalyst.
Yeah. This would be interesting to discuss.
This is very fascinating. Yeah.
The line between the physical and ca and the,
And it might have to be like what the, the,
the significant of the body decides or determines
or whatever, you know, unfolds what the experience
of the body is going to be.
And that then is what translates into a catalyst
of the mind, you know, like we, we have an illness
and then we reflect on the illness,
and we think about the illness, and we think about
what it's gonna mean for our future.
And so clearly we can have an experience of the body.
That body is very catalytic to the mind.
Yeah. Yeah.
We have, well, it's interesting.
It's interesting how he says in either the next one
or one of the later ones, he says, uh, any catalyst
that is not processed by the mind
or spirit will go to the body.
Like Right, that's the last stop.
Like, you're gonna have it at the body
and you're gonna figure it out from the body back.
If you don't figure it out at the mind of the spirit first.
Yeah. Then the body becomes the greatest teacher.
Yeah. It reminds me of that story that, uh, I always refer
to it, the, the, um, the lady was talking about
how in a past life she spent too much time in the garden,
and then in this life she was like deathly allergic
to everything outside, and it just forced her to be indoors
and talk to people
because she would escape social, uh, environments
by going out into the woods
and going out into the environment.
And then on her next go around, they were like, all right,
well, since you didn't socialize in the first one,
we're gonna give you allergies
and your body's gonna force you to go inside now.
Yeah.
So they said, in fact, all that is unprocessed
that has come before the notice of a mind, body,
spirit complex is catalyst
That notice.
So you were saying earlier, Mike, how we,
we ignore certain things, right?
And our perception kinda like our mind doesn't see 99%
or whatever, what's sort of exposed to us, right?
Yeah.
Yeah. It's what can be noticed.
Yeah. And I, and I, I wonder
therefore, you know, again, what that enlightened experience
really looks like.
You know, how do you differentiate between
anything when you see everything as one thing?
I think that's the ultimate
'cause right now we're experiencing, uh, separation,
and we're going through as much separation as possible.
Before, like that, I, again, I go back
to the tongue thing like that, it, the tongue is a, is a,
uh, divisive separation
because you don't speak mind to mind.
You speak through a physical tongue.
You're, you're putting, you're, you're basically saying
that not only am I so separate from you that in order for me
to give you an idea that I'm thinking I have
to bounce it off of the airwaves
and make it an outside acoustical thing
that you can then process.
It's when you go back to
rem remembering that all is one and fully living it
and fully embodying it, then you're back to boredom again.
And you're like, well, let's, you know, see
how far we can dream separation this time.
Yeah. You know what, Nick, you can sign
me up for that kind of boredom.
Yeah. You say that now, but when you get there,
I do say that now. Exactly.
But yeah, once I know all the cards, then yeah,
You're gonna create Andrew again,
and then Andrew's gonna say this again.
Mm-hmm. I don't think so.
But we will eventually, I'm sure have, um, discussion
and conversation around, um, cyclic incarnation and whether
or not, and when, you know, third density or even third
and fourth dimensional reality are a requirement
for incarnated experience.
I'm pretty certain that we have lots and lots
and lots of other types of experiences that we can incarnate
with and with varying degrees of awareness probably.
Uh, but of that one fundamental fact, no, I think it's
what actually keeps all of physical reality
and all of us that agree to be here mostly in the dark most
of the time, is that we're mostly operating under separation
and under the, the belief
that not just can one thing be separate from another,
but in fact every single thing is fully
and completely separate from everything else.
And so, yeah, we manifest that reality in every,
every way we create a body, and then we develop
and evolve a tongue and a whole way of
interacting in this belief
and understanding that we're in fact, entirely separate.
It's fascinating though, that there,
there are almost like a hierarchy of catalysts with, with,
with each of the chakras, each of the energy centers
and our processing of something as simple as riding a bike
or, or driving a car can be entirely viewed.
The catalyst can be entirely around survival.
Seeing, you know, I'm gonna die.
I'm, or if you're riding a
bike as a kid, you're gonna get hurt.
And, and then you think a whole lot more about survival and,
and, and the way in which you could hurt yourself.
But as you're driving a car and you, and you drive for years
and years, then the kinds of things
that you thought about while driving,
like, how to make a turn.
How far do I have to turn the steering wheel?
That's, that's, that's more
and more that's been already processed.
You don't have to process the catalyst of the,
the resistance on the steering wheel
because you've already put that from the,
the conscious processing down in,
in a more integrated fashion into your,
your unconscious processing.
And, and there's no need to be focused on the,
the steering wheel anymore.
You can be thinking about something, something in your day.
You can be thinking about the social relations you're about
to have when you get to the destination instead of the, the,
the specific, uh, unprocessed catalyst that that
was of the, you know, the, the, the simpler nature.
Um, so I feel like what
Great point, really, because if we do sort
of look at catalyst through the lens of each of the chakras,
that will certainly probably help give us an idea of
where our blockages are, you know?
So we're not just looking at catalyst monolithically,
but more as we can relate it to something that, you know,
we start to have some classification or categorization.
And it's interesting
that the chakras are obviously an amalgamation of the mind,
body, spirit complex,
and yet do give us really good ways of,
of really localizing concepts
and things to a certain, um, location or energy center.
So it's a great point that if we are experiencing catalyst,
we can ask ourselves, what kind is this,
is there fear over survival,
or is there fear of a, of a social dynamic or a power shift
or change or something like that?
Um, yeah, I wonder what catalyst looks like at, at,
at every level, frankly.
Yep. And for me, this is all about the, the process
of the disciplines, the personality,
knowing the self on every level,
accepting the self on every level,
becoming the creator on every level, and then,
and then all the catalyst is no longer needed.
I agree. Ultimately, going back to the point earlier
that catalyst is a teacher.
It's like, once you learn the lesson, the thing
that you're here to learn, then I, I don't think
that experience goes anywhere.
You know? I mean, again, that I, I do like to think
that we are created for that good reason
to have a great experience
and to pass that experience back to, uh, our source.
And, you know, so we're a methodology for our source
to have this kind of experience.
Um, but it's just about pulling our head out
of the shadow at this point, you know, collectively
and individually waking up to this one
stupid thought system that we've just so completely
clinched ourselves to that every thought we have, almost,
unless we're intentional about remembering the law of one,
that everything is one thing that suddenly, you know,
other than that like, man, we say it all the time.
If you call a chair a chair, you are in separation.
You have not said that
that is the one infinite creator come as the chair.
You've called it a chair.
You've, you've claimed it and informed it.
You've, you've given it this characteristic
and this whole experience
and reality that our outside of what is true.
Yeah. But I, I think back to the, the, um,
when they were built, they were describing building the
pyramids, and raw said, we asked,
we touched the rock at its rockness
and asked, asked it to form the blocks.
So, you know, you can, you can recognize
that at this under level of understanding
that things are somewhat separate,
but there's a deep seated connection,
so you can call it a chair,
but if you were really adept, you could, you know,
form the chair out of matter.
That is, you know,
not necessarily we know the chair in chair, the form
of a chair at that point.
No, but you know, the chair to know something is
to realize, to realize is to make real,
it is to make manifest.
So when you know the chair, you are knowing the chair
as an expression of its source,
and you are knowing the chair as first
and foremost source come as
or in the shape of, you know, chair
or with experience of buts
and you know, all the things that go along
with being a chair.
And I think that's why, uh, I, I always,
whenever you bring up the, you know,
why don't we just wake up
and, you know, I get that that's the goal.
Mm-hmm. But the, the, the goal eventually is
to get back to, to being fully aware that everything is one.
But the goal right now is to not know that the,
the goal right now is to have the experience.
People don't go on rollercoasters
that just have like a nice gradual,
and then they just travel on, they go on a rollercoaster
to be like, oh my God, I could have died.
You know? Like that's what this is.
It's, it's a, this is a biochemical rollercoaster
to consciousness is happen.
Yeah. Yeah. And we
chose this particular ride
to freak ourselves out just enough mm-hmm.
To wake up. And so yes, we are having this particular ride
for that reason.
And I do subscribe to this concept
of breaking the, the wheel of life.
And I think that raw does too. Yeah.
I mean raw and,
and there, um, you know, copious, uh,
treatment and, and description of densities
and evolution through consciousness.
I mean, I think it's certainly within the teaching
that we're examining here today, it's, it's implicit
and explicit that this is definitely an evolutionary cycle.
And that catalyst,
as we know it in this particular form is necessary here
and is available here, but is only necessary
and available here because of the nature of the, you know,
the corner in into which we've painted ourselves.
I, I would like to address this point, uh, brought up, uh,
by Sandra asking about the, the relationships between, uh,
chakras and archetypes here.
And I feel like the, the, when you see the, the, the,
the catalyst of the mind image here, it's,
it's called the empress because they said that
it has a noble name because of the,
the way in which the unconscious
or female portion of the mind complex is first ed
by the male or conscious portion of the mind.
So the, and it's also interesting that you,
you would see this more
with g gratitude when you appreciate the,
the archetypal nature of catalyst.
It's hard not to be grateful for what that represents.
It's like the, the infinite creator
with your best interest in mind, coming to you
with an infinitely open heart coming to reveal to you,
this is the most perfect potential of experience for you,
the most per perfect potential of, of lessons
and growing that's coming
through everything that's coming to you.
And so to be able to perceive that
is requires shaking loose all of the, the distortions
and blockages of the chakra centers
and all the, all the different, um, lower energies in,
in order to see, in terms of the sacramental nature
of each experience, which is, they say
what happens when you're seeing from the, the violent ray
lens when you've raised the Kundalini all the way up,
everything becomes a, a sacrament, uh, you know,
of the creator by the creator
for the creator to the creator.
It's all, it's all seen in the highest, uh, light.
And that's, that's why the, the,
the archetypal appreciations of the patterns of evolution,
I think are representations of the opened
balanced chakra system.
That's a really good point, a good reminder that as much
as I sort of look forward to, you know, the,
the next evolutionary chapter in which, um,
catalyst is not primarily at least driven by
or undergirded with this, um,
this belief system in separation,
I'm also simultaneously incredibly grateful
for the perfection of the system that allows the,
the incessant accessibility of the catalyst
that I very much need to realize
what I came here to realize.
And so I simultaneously, you know, don't want it
and am so completely grateful that it is here
and available to me because it is clearly what I need
and that's why I encounter it, because I still need it.
I think we're, we're, we're dancing around the topic of,
uh, social memory complex catalyst
because for you to have your individual catalysts,
for me, the way I think of it when I say like,
I feel like conscious this is doing an inhale in an exhale
where it's seeing how far separated
it can convince itself
before it comes back into itself again.
And I think that the, uh, I think we're well
beyond the point of the breath where,
where we're transitioning from the inhale to the exhale.
I think we're on the exhale,
we're coming back, we're coalescing.
And that's why like, uh,
Rob talks about social memory complexes.
We're trying to get our individual proverbial s**t together
so that the social memory complex can start to coalesce so
that we can start to fold back in
because we are on the, the return.
I feel it, I don't have any proof,
but I feel that we're on the return back to oneness.
We went as far out as we could go with separation
for this go around, and we're on the return
back to oneness now.
And all these individual catalysts get thrown into the
social memory catalyst,
and we're trying to bring the entirety
of the earth population back in
so we can fold back into the earth
so the earth can fold back into the solar system,
can fold back into the sun.
You know what I mean? And everything just kind
of like folds back in like, uh, the nesting dolls.
Yeah. Um, I, gosh, I would love to feel
that we've turned the corner.
Um, and part of me does feel that clearly,
and I understand that we have collectively chosen that
though when I look at sort of the densities themselves,
I guess 1, 2, 3, if there's seven sort of more
or less in an octave, if you were
to look at the fool's journey as, you know, sort of a,
you know, an equal length trip all the way down
and back up, then you might see
being halfway through the fourth, uh, density
as being roughly halfway, though it sure seems that
by the time you become a social memory complex
and you're in the density of love, which fourth density is,
gosh, that certainly feels like Yeah,
definitely the next level
and that we're, you know, all definitely barreling back,
um, in the right direction.
So I, I agree with you,
that does feel a little bit more like we've turned the
corner, if, if not mathematically, it might just be that,
that the trip down obviously only takes, uh,
so many densities or there's a, you know, a, a shortcut
through them and then, you know, the journey back up.
There's more to do. I don't
Know. And then, and
you also have to take it out of
the individual experience and the human experience
and the Earthling experience,
because we may be on this planet in this energy field,
the last one to come back to coalesce,
like the final head on the final nesting,
do all the other ones are sitting there waiting
for the final piece to come back on.
That's why they're communicating these things back to us.
Like, Hey guys, hey guys, look at the Tara.
You know, Hey, hey guys. Look, look, look at, uh, uh, yeah.
What, what's the other one? The sra.
Oh, the Kabbala, the,
Yeah. Like all
these things are, are, are, the rest
of consciousness is backed into the nesting formation,
and they're waiting for that last top to come on.
It certainly seems very interesting
that we are on a planet
where raw emphasizes the challenges being related
to the large diversity of genetic influences, souls
who had trouble evolving on different planets, all kind
of coming here and having to work through it.
Mm-hmm. Souls from mal deck just beyond Mars had to, had to
completely go through intense trauma and heal from that.
And they're doing that here. Souls from Mars having gone
through slightly less trauma.
They didn't blow up their planet, but they still couldn't
inhabit their planet anymore.
They had to come here and
It's a hot mess.
Yeah. Honestly, I mean, literally, the,
the whole story definitely tells the hot mess history of,
of Earth, and that we sort of get this idea
that this isn't entirely typical maybe, or at least
Earth feels like the principals
Office. This, like
a, what the principal of
The principal's office got all the baddies
that were distracting everybody in the class,
put 'em in the principal's office,
and now the principal's going, Hey guys, come on.
Yeah. And it does seem though that, that
because of those, um, other factors and,
and perhaps even additional factors from
neighboring star systems
and things like that, that collectively speaking, I think I,
I do believe that sort of Dawn arrives at,
or raw sort of confirms,
or that the story ultimately tells us that we kind
of had some odd stacked against us collectively here
because we weren't really allowed to evolve the way
that we typically would have under just our regular logos.
And so we've got karmic influences coming from other planets
and potentially even other star systems that, you know,
make this again, just a, a big hot mess.
I mean, and I, I gather there's a lot of, a lot of support
for Earth, but if there's a pool somewhere, if, um,
you know, interdimensional beings are are placing wagers
on earth, I mean, it seems like we've, uh, we've kind
of set ourselves up for, for failure.
We failed a number of times before, obviously,
And they even said that the Confederation was alarmed
by our lack of progress in these past 75,000 years.
Sorry. Well, you, you take,
you take all the misfits in the known galaxy,
and it's gonna, it's gonna take a little while.
That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying.
But they, I I do feel like they've sent
tutors, you know what I mean?
Like the, the truly enlightened beings like Ramdas
and people like Alan Watts and,
and you know, all the rishis in India and,
and all the like, Confucius.
These people were like the teacher's pet that had the class
done so well that they could take time out of their learning
and go help the kids on Earth
and the kids in the principal's office,
you know, get it together.
Yeah. I think there's still something
to examine there on the, the concept of traveling and,
and Wander is which, but
that's a probably for a different call.
Um, though I would actually pull the catalyst into this
and say that some, some, uh, channel teachings, um,
are more or less referred to Travelers
and Wanderers as, as only a half step less oblivious than
the ones who are doing the same thing over
and over again on Third Density,
because they're, they're still saying, look, we, we know
that you, you feel drawn to it.
You feel that you need to come and lift the vibration.
You need to come and heal the plant.
Like whatever it is, we're here to just try
to snap you out of even that.
So I know that raw doesn't really, um, you know,
go into that territory.
I think that raw is,
unless you guys remember differently,
pretty much only speaks positively, I suppose,
or at least conformationally as as to why, um, wanderers
and Travelers come in.
But whether we're coming in to raise the vibration
or heal the planet, or maybe are coming in
for our own catalyst, right?
Like, and, and that's why I'm still not sure at what level
does Catalyst become unnecessary, or if you are a traveler
or wanderer coming from Fifth Density, um, then,
you know, what is your requirement
for Catalyst when you incarnate in a third density
body and experience?
Do you not set yourself up for a needing catalyst
that you've already maybe potentially even processed before?
There's a, a really good video that, uh, Roger sent me,
uh, it's on Gaia, um,
and it is, it's called,
the Link just says Watch IV dash ancient Ian.
Um, but it's a guy who's doing a channeling
and he is doing a question
and answer with the,
the channel being directly across from him.
And he makes a lot of really good points,
and it, it, it follows so closely along with
what Raz stuff is,
but at one point he's really digging into the questioner's,
really digging into, you know, like,
what is life like on other u in other universes
and other octaves and, and things like that.
And he basically says kind of the same things that Rod does,
but he does give one experiment where he says, um, he says,
uh, that there, there was a universe of experience
that was all darkness and the only thing to be experienced,
and he doesn't, and he doesn't mean darkness in,
in the sense of just varying levels of, of lack of light.
Yeah. Consciousness only appreciates varying shades
of, of blackness.
I, I remember that. I think I've seen
that interview actually. Yeah.
Is it the guy that he answers every question
by going Yes. Yes.
I think so. I think it was on interview
with extra dimensionals interview with Ed.
Yeah. Um, so, um, yeah, those are, those are fantastic. Um,
But I would imagine that is a non catalytic experience
because you're just experiencing varying levels of darkness.
Well, I'm gonna read a quote here, uh, that I've,
I've thinking about a lot lately.
It's like, so catalyst is really like, what,
what it is we're, we're needing as a kind of, you know, fuel
for reflection and, and, and,
and appreciation of something
that hasn't been dealt with yet.
And they said in session 42,
there was a question about the balancing exercises,
and Ross said the catalyst of experience,
and they're probably talking about catalyst,
which is all, all leading to experience.
The catalyst of experience works in order for the,
for the learned teachings of this density to occur.
However, if there is seen in the being a response,
even if it is simply observed,
the entity is still using the catalyst for learned teaching.
And here's another interesting point.
They don't, they don't separate learning and teaching. Yeah.
They're, they're, they're seen as the same thing.
It's like, as we, as we become that, that heal,
that healed individual, then we are a mirror for that
for others, or a reflection of that, that kind of healing
for the mass consciousness probably.
And we're learning together, always learning together.
Mm-hmm. The end result is
that the catalyst is no longer needed,
thus this density is no longer needed.
Yeah. This is not indifference or objectivity,
but a finely tuned compassion
and love, which sees all things as love.
This seeing elicits no response due to catalytic reactions.
Thus, the entity is now able to become co-creator
of experiential occurrences.
This is the truer balance.
So I assume that, that when we're seeing from a vantage
point, which is not reacting out of a sense
of separation, a sense of imbalance,
but we're, we're fully seeing the love
of the creator working through every situation, then we,
then we partake in the intelligent infinity,
which is selecting the, the manner of creation unfolding
from, from the highest vantage point, I guess.
And that is perfectly the embodiment of teach learning.
Yeah. Be because you're, you, you are learning
and then creating the lesson at the same time,
You become the lesson sort of Yeah.
Like by example, right. By your own experience.
You, you are a, a teacher.
Yep. All right.
We got almost an hour into this, so we'll try to get
through a few more quotes here
and then get onto the, the symbol
digestion and try to do some of that.
Yeah. We might as well start talking about pictures.
I wanna do one, one last,
or maybe we already covered this,
but I wanted to put more clarification on this.
I relay to the veil,
I was just wondering if the attorney transparency
of the garment on the third card indicates the
semi-permeable nature of the veil
between conscious and subconscious.
Um, that's this veil covering her,
which is partially see-through representing the veil.
Ross said, this is a thoughtful percept perception.
It cannot be said to be incorrect.
However, the intent suggestion in general is an echo
of our earlier suggestion.
That the nature of catalyst is that of the unconscious,
that is the outward catalyst comes through the veil.
All that you perceive seems to be consciously perceived.
This is not the correct supposition.
All that you perceive as perceived as catalyst,
unconsciously by the, shall we say, time
that the mind begins, its appreciation of catalyst.
That catalyst has been filtered through the veil.
And in some cases much has veiled in the most apparently
clear perception
Filtered through the veil.
I think meaning heavily biased based on our unconscious sort
of biases already.
So by the time we notice it, it's already, it's already,
um, risked us.
Right? So it's an ongoing journey to,
to to see more clearly
Seems consciously perceived.
I see what they're saying. So that they're saying
that you think everything you see,
you're consciously seeing,
but in reality, everything
that you're seeing has already been filtered
through your presuppositions and biases and so forth.
And so by the time you see it, it's necessarily catalyst
because you're now perceiving it in this biased fashion.
Right. And so our experiences like resting on an iceberg
of unconscious, uh, opportunities
for deeper exploration, I guess
because everything is coming from a massive,
a massive weight of deeper mind that that is,
it's almost like it's pulling us to, to learn more about
where, where everything is coming from in our mind.
And it's also like it's coming through the veil in, in
that it's coming through your personal veil,
but it's, it's, uh, you're not getting the whole thing.
You know, like if, if in the matrix,
when Neo goes into the matrix for the first time,
and the girl with the red dress walks past
and he gets distracted, if the girl
with the red dress walked past
and with her came the idea, this is a distraction,
Neil would've never turned around.
Exactly. Yeah.
He would've been consciously perceiving it,
and it would, she would've just been
in the background like everyone else.
The fact that he noticed, yeah, it's
because he's predisposed to women or women in red
or, you know, whatever it is.
But you know, yeah.
That's, that's a really great example of that
because if that had not been catalyst
for Neo, he wouldn't have noticed.
And it doesn't mean that she wasn't there.
It just means that Yeah,
she didn't amount to catalyst for him.
Mm-hmm. Right.
So let's, let's start looking at the images more here.
Um, we did do most
of the symbols in this catalyst of my cart.
So we can just lightly cover some of this
and discuss what it is that we're,
what we're roughly looking at.
Um, so we're looking
at the female, that's the most important aspect next
to the bird, I would say the female is, is
representing this unconscious nature
that we've been talking about of catalyst
and cir circling her.
Um, I forget what we would call that.
It's almost like a sun, but are these the lotus flowers?
Um, we've got, uh, yeah,
it looks like lotus flowers. When he zoom in,
They definitely look more flower like in this picture.
See if I can get, hold this steady enough for you
to get the subtle lines.
Can you see that? They're very tiny.
I see. But with just the tiniest bit.
And also the stalks are green in this one.
So with just the tiniest bit of color,
certain things are more apparent,
So it's little. Yeah. It's like flowers.
Mm-hmm. Like a stem and a flower.
And the, and the flowers are like pinkish.
So I mean, very much like a flower.
So this, this definitely feels like a symbol of a sun
that seems to be connected with this, um, this lotus symbol.
Um, and it, it,
how would you classify the lotus symbol Nick?
Is this form of enlightenment?
Uh, well, I'm pretty sure it's the blue lotus.
Um, well, it was a, it,
it it had hallucinogenic properties like DMT, um, yeah.
In the Egyptian time.
So honestly, when I look at that thing, I see the secrets
of your universe were created by the,
your universe was created by the sun.
In order to find the secrets of your universe,
use the plants that the sun feeds that can feed you
physically and mentally and spiritually.
That's what I see in that sun of lotus flowers.
Yeah. It's like mind expansion.
Yeah. Yeah. Like, uh, it's subtly hinting at, you know,
your subsect of the universe was put together by the sun,
and the sun also puts everything on the planet
that would help you grow.
And here's, here's a little cheat sheet
with this flower specifically.
Yeah. I wonder if each of the flowers could be said
to represent, um, each of the different facets of
how catalyst could be unconsciously perceived.
Unc. Oh man. I wonder how many flowers there are.
I already count them.
Go get 'em. Left brain. How many are there?
There are 31, um, counting the two
that are under her arms. Oh,
So there would be like 32 or 33 with them behind her?
Uh, yes.
I would think 33 actually would probably be right,
because you'd have one in between under her left,
what's at her left elbow and then probably just one.
Mm-hmm. And right behind her, basically behind
Her torso. Yeah.
So I think it's 33.
The 33 is a hidden thing though.
So we have some veil around that.
Exactly. Exactly. We have a little
master number hiding in there.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And isn't that the, uh,
supposedly when the um, oh my God, what's
that group of people?
The Prema stone? The masons? Yeah.
The, once you hit like the 33rd level, it becomes, now you,
now you're in the secret portion.
I didn't realize that
There was an exercise.
I did, I think it might've been Barbara Mex channelings,
like spinning around 33 times or something like that.
And I, I did that for the longest time, just spinning around
to try to activate chakras 33 times
something I did for years.
Have you guys done your, your numerology?
Do, do you guys know? I'm a, I'm a 33.
That's actually my ma my number, my master number.
If you add up your, I guess it's your birthday, right? I
Don't know.
Yeah. All the, the numbers in your, your full birthday
Okay. Number, and
then if you find the digital route,
and so you keep, you keep reducing it down.
Unless you land on 11, 22 or 33, those stay, but
otherwise your, your number should be less than
One. It should be a single digit.
Yeah. One, one to nine. Yeah. Alright.
Uh, well that's an interesting point,
but, uh, yeah, the, uh, another major symbol here was the,
the box being sat upon was reflective of the, you know,
the third density illusion,
the physical illusion that we're, we're in.
That the catalyst of the mind is sort of seated upon
that almost like it's a, it's, it's a foundational thing
that we're in this illusion that we
receive catalyst in the way that we do. Um, and then the
Almost that you wouldn't have one without the other.
Yeah. Um,
and then the, the eye of Horace here was all, all
around the, this illusion that I guess that means
that there's a hinting that the perceptions
of this illusion can be,
Did Rob address the eye of horror specifically?
I'm sure we went over that. Obviously when we,
I believe that it was very lightly discussed.
I don't think we got much better. And
Those are not the same eye.
'cause there's the eye of Horace and isn't the reverse one
because the one on the upper left is the re No,
the two on the left are reversed of the other three.
And I'm pretty sure
that those are, that those are different.
And also, I don't know if you guys have ever seen the
crosscheck cross-section of the, the pituitary gland,
you know, and the eye of horse is like,
it makes the exact same thing with the eye.
Yeah. The the thalamus. Yeah.
The hypothalamus, the thalamus
and the um, uh, pineal gland and all that.
Yeah. But these are two different eyes as far
as I know one is the eye of horse,
but I think the other one may have
been called the eye of raw.
Uh, but I think it was a different eye regardless.
But it is kind of interesting that they have both. Yeah.
And if you took the cross-section of the brain,
it would depend on which side you looked at
that it would look like one or the other.
Yeah. And each side of the brain is obviously,
we understand them to function relatively
differently as well.
Yeah. Well I think that, yeah,
the comprehensions of the third eye probably are
gonna be related to this.
What does he officially say in the book?
I don't see anything that, uh, looks like it's very
explaining that that symbol, uh, I,
I might have missed something, but, um,
that might have been missed in the discussions.
Might not, might not have been a part of the,
the card. Was it a part of the original
Card? Well, yeah, I was gonna say
I
don't think it's in the other card.
Isn't, isn't, uh, she just sitting on one that's got lines?
Let me pull up the redrawn versions. Uh oh, that's
The wrong, that's the wrong book.
I, I can teach people how to get to this material.
Go to ll research.org
And Oh, it is go to
Channeling and then you can go to the raw contact
and you can go down to, um, archetypes and the tarot.
And they have some other versions here that you can look at,
um, that were the redrawn ones.
There are eyes out there.
They did, yep, they did have that.
Mm-hmm. Those eyes there. Yep.
No, I was thinking of the first one when the bird was in
the cage where it's just lines,
but also notice there no flowers in that one.
Yeah. That, that box is just made of shades. Yep.
Oh, is there no flowers in the redrawn?
There's no flowers on that original one that he
Shown that was much more like a, just a sun.
Yeah. Oh, it's interesting. Yeah.
Well we still have the, the crown.
Very fascinating looking crown there.
Yeah. 12 stars on that.
I suppose that could mean, uh, higher perceptions
or, uh, potentials to, to draw in from the,
the cosmos in some way.
Does that have anything to do with the sro?
Like any part of the SRO that is the,
that is considered the crown to have 12,
Well, maybe not, um, 12,
but Keter, the, the very uppermost sra, uh,
Keter is Hebrew for a crown.
So it literally is, the crown chakra is also associated with
that because the, the 10 SRA in the tree
of life are actually on seven different levels
because, you know, several of them are paired up together.
So you've got the foundation or the macu at the very bottom,
and then you've got Yes, uh, you sewed right above that.
And then they start pairing off.
And then you've got deeper breath in the middle
of another pair and another pair.
And then you have Keter at the top center.
So there are seven levels basically that they're on.
And, and I've seen those, um, I've seen that parallel drawn
before that, that's also sort of the seven chakras, um,
reflected in other laws of correspondence, I suppose.
Okay. Just follow, follow this thought.
'cause it just popped into my head.
She's got a crown of stars on her head.
That's, that starts from one star
and then comes down on, so like one star,
we all came from one star, the original logos.
And then your, your physical body is imbued
with your spirit, you know, through a lot of things.
It says through the crown chakra.
And it's, it's almost hinting at like
you are stardust basically
Like stardust.
Yeah, like the sun, your specific sub logos
or sub sub logos.
But like the sun is creating
the solar system that you live in.
And then that sun learned from the previous suns learned
from the previous suns learned from the original sun.
But they're all stars. So from one star comes
your experience through the crown. It'd be
Really nice to know when, when stars generally took
on a five pointed nature, I suppose,
whether that was in the form of a, you know, a pentagram
or just like these are, which are just drawn, you know,
the outlines and the more or less,
Well that doesn't happen until they enter
through our atmosphere Right.
And are visualized through our eyes
because a star doesn't look like that.
Uh, go look at a, uh, a video feed
of the sun. It don't look like that.
Yeah, no, I, I agree.
It, it does sort of have a twinkly to it. Right.
But why is it that it's a five pointed star specifically
and not six or eight
or 12, I mean, twinks, I mean it could be even three.
Like you can't normally see like all the individual points
of light on a twinkly star.
Well, we, we could speculate that there's some deeper
resonance here with the number fiver representing the,
the fifth density, which was the density of light
and growing in light and appreciation of light
and using light more and more.
There It is. That's gotta be it.
Alright, Mike Crack. That's
My guess.
Um, but yeah, but they always said to dismiss the stars
as having been added later on by the,
the astrologers of later times.
Um, but um,
so we got a question from Russell in the, in the chat.
Does rock considered numbers themselves as archetypes?
This was posited by Young and Louise Vaughn Franz,
and I don't know
because they, you know, they talk about the significance
of the, the sevens with the seven, uh, you know,
the seven notes on an octave,
the seven colors in the rainbow, the seven, uh, densities
and a, an octave of experience.
So there, there are certainly numerical
fractal appreciations that they're hinting at, but,
but maybe the, the nuances
of the numbers themselves aren't sufficient enough, uh,
for, for greater understanding.
Like the, the nuances of these complex images
or the, of the, you know, the understanding the 10 planets
and the, and the astrology and that kind of thing.
Um, but, but if you, you, I mean it's so fascinating
that we would say there's 10 planets and we have 10 fingers.
It's like what? There's gotta be meanings across the
board through, through a lot of it. What
If they find another planet beyond Pluto?
I mean, we're counting mal deck as one, right?
Maybe. Yeah, I think that's what they meant. Yeah.
And so if Pluto's not a planet, then
that would still put us at nine counting mal deck.
And so the one that I just read a few weeks ago
that they're postulating exists
beyond Pluto might still be a thing.
Well maybe that's a different mysterious layer
to astrology we're not ready for yet.
Indeed. I would think that raw regards numbers as a lot
of the physicists
and quantum physicists, uh, regard numbers
as the language of the universe.
Yeah. Um, yes, uh,
RIA certainly does too in the, um, Hebrew
and Kabbalistic traditions.
Um, there's, uh, tons there
around Seraphim and things like that.
So the, the three mothers seven doubles and all that.
So each of the characters in the 22
of the 22 characters in the Hebrew language is
also a number.
So, um, I would, and
and so when you look at that on the co kalo specifically
because it's got the 10 sra, there's um, quite a, well,
I wouldn't say like a whole bunch more,
but there's definitely more going on
numerologically than maybe in some other traditions,
but I wouldn't say that it's like so central to it.
But you do end up numbering those SRA and,
and associating certain things with them.
And also the, when you get the stuff like, uh, the people
that are studying the, the, like the platonic solids
and things like that where the, the,
I don't know if I've ever talked about it before,
but there was a guy who shown the seed of life
and the seed of life is like circles within circles
and if you connect the circles at certain axes, you get
the two dimensional representation
of a three dimensional figure.
And basically you're, you're, you can get to the point
where you, like each three platonic solid can be represented
by a number, which can be projected into
a two dimensional reality.
But they're basically talking about how, how, uh, matter
how thought percolates from the, the sea
of pure potentiality into physical existence.
You know, I, um, I often have thought that the tree
of life might better be represented in, in three dimensions
or as a, as a platonic solid, for example.
And I've played with different ways to try
and get it configured that way
and specifically using rosberg to try to map the archetypes
to the 22 paths in between the saffron.
And it's, it's an interesting endeavor,
but I'm not entirely sure
that the two dimensional existing representation of the tree
of life really tells the whole story.
And it definitely doesn't tell any of the story in terms
of these archetypes.
If they do in fact map through which Ross seems to,
you know, to say, I mean they do, Ross says that the 22
major arcana
and the 22 paths on the tree
and the 10 planets
and 12 houses are, are analogous, right?
Like Ross specifically stitches those together.
They don't say they're exactly one-to-one apps,
But not exactly the same. But they are, but
They're very
Parallels are right or they're, they're one is, uh, causal
or they're both reflective of the same archetypal causes
or something like that, that they, they drew that line.
Let's talk about this catalyst
of the body. Why don't you explain,
Right? As
far as I know, there's only one
looks like if we click on this category here, we had two,
two sessions where it was discussed.
Uh, so this is the challenge that we face, is the,
that Don Elkins
before he died was only able
to go into detail in the first seven.
So when we get past archetype number seven to eighth
through 21, 22, we have very little detail,
but we can talk about this.
Uh, Don asked going back to the 10th archetype,
which is the catalyst of the body
or the wheel of fortune, which represents
interaction with other selves.
Is this a correct statement?
Does this represent interaction with other selves?
And Ross said this may be seen
to be a roughly correct statement in
that each catalyst is dealing with the nature
of those experiences entering the energy web
and vibratory perceptions of the mind, body, spirit complex.
Each catalyst is dealing with the nature
of those experiences entering the energy web
and vibratory perceptions of the mind, body, spirit complex.
The most carefully noted addition would be that the
outside stimulus of the wheel of fortune is
that which offers both positive and negative experience.
So positive
and negative experience is built into this process.
It's built into the archetype of the catalyst of the body.
We can have pain and we can have pleasure of the body.
Why does rock haul something positive
and negative experience?
I mean, they talk a lot about positive
and negative polarity, but what is that?
Well, they do use the word positive
and negative more often than I think we tend
to be comfortable with as they use the word polarity more
often than the average person is comfortable
with in the spiritual communities.
When you hear about polarity, you think, oh,
I don't wanna be a part of polarity anymore.
And then these entire books are going into, oh,
now is the time for polarizing.
Just make sure you're polarizing the,
and the more efficient path is the hint polarizing.
The more efficient path would be the polarizing towards
strong amounts of love and,
and, um, perceiving oneness of others.
And this is polarized in the opposite direction
by people perceiving service
to self separation as the other pole.
So if you, if you can see they also use positive
and negative to represent that which is receptive
and that which is, um, absorbent or, uh,
and that which is radiant, that which is absorbent
and receiving and that which is giving
and radiating as to ways of perceiving things.
Do you have a guess as to what they would be
if if Don were to ask them immediately after this?
Can you give me an example of positive
and negative experience?
What do you think Rob might say?
Well, it's interesting that they also refer,
even they even refer to male and female as positive and
and negative at one point, which is like
super triggering for people.
But it's literally talking about one is receiving in, in,
in the, the symbol of the, the male
and female, the, the male is that which is reaching female?
Is that which is awaiting the reaching.
So you could take this down.
You, you could take the ethical moral judgment side
of this all the way down to nothing if you really want to
and say you don't have to, to judge it with.
Um, with, with the lens of saying that,
that we are avoiding negative experiences
because in order to make a baby, there has
to be an absorption of the, of the, the sperm that the,
that to seed the egg.
Um, is, is is the creation of a baby a negative experience?
Because it, because you're absorbing
something to create new life.
Um, and it's,
And the earth absorbs energy from the sun
to create all of its life.
Yeah, I would say that a great example of, uh,
positive and n negative experience in, in this realm,
especially related to catalyst of the body.
Uh, I have a great example.
I still have the scars on my hand to prove it.
My mom told me not to touch the burner.
I touched the burner.
That was a negative experience
that could have been positive if I had just listened.
Yeah, I'm, I'm kind of, um, yeah, I'm kind of
of that mind here too.
This is a, a bit disconnected from, you know, catalyst
to go straight to experience really is sort of what this is.
And yet, I I what we're gonna read in the next one here,
what hopefully what we think catalyst of the body really is.
But if, if somebody walked up and,
and slapped me in the face, you might call
that a negative experience because I had, um, catalyst
that was, that was offered to me, uh,
by someone on the negative path or negative polarity.
And so I had a, an experience of negativity, I suppose.
And so then it becomes catalyst to the extent that I,
that it, that it stands in the way of me that seeing, uh,
past that and seeing the truth in that being in
that they are obviously one with their
creator versus somebody that comes up
and gives me a big hug, for example,
might be a positive experience.
And so it seems like raw is saying that the catalyst of the
body can be any of these things that come in
and that you have some experience of it.
Yeah. Uh,
so one example I thought I could bring up is the,
the catalyst of having cancer.
And this is following up from the discussions of, uh,
where they said, uh, catalyst that is not fully used
by the mind and spirit is given to the body.
And then catalyst of, of anger not used
by the mind can filter into becoming, when,
when you're not using the catalyst in your mind alone
of anger, that frustration
that fix gets bottled in can become cancer.
And so Don asked, what is the plan for the use
of the catalyst of cancer, which is clearly a,
a bodily catalyst.
Uh, the, the catalyst in all catalyst is
designed to offer experience.
This experience in your density may be loved and accepted,
or it may be controlled.
These are the two paths.
When neither path is chosen,
the catalyst fails in its design
and that the entity proceeds until catalyst strikes it,
which causes it to form a bias towards acceptance and love
or towards separation and control.
There is no lack of space time in
which this catalyst may work.
So maybe it's the choice being made along the journey of of
of seeing the catalyst through the unconscious processes as
to whether or not this is turning into a negative
or positive experience and the biases of the individual.
There is no lack of space time
in which this catalyst may work.
That means there is plenty of space time
in which this catalyst can work, right?
Meaning space time is full of opportunities
for this catalyst to work.
Am I reading that very last sentence correctly?
I think. I think so. Okay. Alright.
Okay. So you can love and accept your cancer.
It's also of your source and of your creator.
You know, I think on paper I'm, I'm good with this.
I don't have a problem with it.
Um, I, I think what I would have to, in order to to love it,
I would have to, to recognize that it's part of this
otherwise perfectly functioning system
and that through my own choices
and my own expression, I incurred this to myself.
And, and I can love that going back to what I said earlier,
that, gosh, I would love
to incarnate next time without catalyst
or at least without catalyst that is rooted in separation.
And yet at the same time, I am infinitely grateful
for the function of catalyst
because it is here to do exactly what it's here to do.
And so, gosh, I think you can love
and accept your cancer.
And now that's, that's very hard for me
to say because I don't have it.
And obviously a lot of people do
and that's gotta be very challenging to have it let alone
to try and love and accept it though.
I think that if you can appreciate that your,
your entire energetic system
to include your body is functioning perfectly.
There's something really nice about that.
You know, and cancer is perfect in, in its expression,
Right? Uh, it
is, it's also pretty fascinating how,
how our society tends to look at people with cancer now.
And it's like there's a huge amount of benefit
to people if they can get out of their normal journey
and take, take a step back
and maybe lay in a hospital bed for some time
and just analyze everything from a different angle
and have some people throwing love at them.
Usually we're not, we're, it's kind of fortunate
that we're in a society where we're not
judged by your karma.
If you have cancer, it's like that,
that that'd be a totally different kind of energy.
If our culture was like, man, you got cancer again.
That is really interesting.
And it's also interesting
and it, I think it makes sense actually if you think about
it, that it has to manifest in the body
and in such a way that it slows us down.
Like you just said, Mike, if it puts us on our back
and in a bed with availability of books
and obviously exercising in mind,
we have a far greater opportunity perhaps to re comprehend
and read approach
and understand, you know, our whole experience as opposed
to if illness manifests itself as, as hyper,
um, physicality,
like it could literally op it could be the opposite
that illness could represent as a, a bulking up
and a strengthening up and an energizing
and a, a thing that pushes us further
and further out into the world.
Um, however, that would give us a lot less opportunity
to sit there and really think about it.
And so it kind of makes sense that, um, illness
necessarily eventually will slow down the function
of the body and get us back to, we have to exercise
and process catalyst ultimately
through the mind, I think, to release it.
Yeah. And the other thing is the,
the effect it has on the people around you, you know,
'cause kids get cancer too, you know,
how big could they have been in the
five years that they were here? Yeah.
How does that work, Mike? What about kids that,
that get cancer or are born with cancer? That's
What I'm saying, like, I don don't karma from my,
don't necessarily, it's just that,
that it's not necessarily all about you
because remember, we're the collective trying
to inform the collective through an individual experience
so the baby comes into the world with cancer so
that the parents can have that experience
Also. I, I do think
that there's possibly,
even in the very early stages in the womb,
there's vibrations being offered by the mother that,
that developing fetus is choosing to accept or reject
and work with and,
and the, the, the earliest decisions
by the mother may be influencing the, you know,
the earliest development of the personality of that infant.
This is speculation though.
Can you, is all catalyst
eventually processed as catalyst of the mind?
So again, like any catalyst of the body has to be perceived
or maybe not, I suppose not.
You can actually develop cancer and not know it.
Huh? Actually, so can
We read, did we read one that talked about that?
I feel like this has been talked about in various ways
that, that everything is
No, I mean we just, we just read one
where they talked about that.
Go clarify. What do you mean?
Oh yeah, it was the catalyst of the mind
and then they went on to talk about, um, the body,
the group and the body.
That's where we were tweezing apart that clause of
each in the groups, the configuration
of each in the group's body towards comfort
or discomfort is also catalyst.
So it was saying that everything basically is catalyst.
And I guess to your point, Mike, the law
of mentalism does say that
ultimately everything is in the mind of God and so
therefore everything has a,
a mental component eventually, I suppose.
Yeah. And you could think of this
as inner experience versus outer experience.
The outer experiences retracting back
to the inner experience to, and it's really it's function.
It's like watching a movie to have an experience,
and then you gotta take away from that.
And then you do, you do the inner work
after you've done the, the, the outer experiential work
and it's, and it's the fruits of that work
that then inform the being,
Did we read 93 10 yet?
Um, yes.
So the end all uses of catalyst
by the mind are those consciously applied
to catalyst without conscious intent?
The use of catalyst is never processed through mentation,
ideation and imagination.
Yeah. So intention is everything.
I mean, literally seeing, seeing it
as an opportunity is a requirement is what I heard you say.
Like, if you don't see it as an opportunity
and intend to process it
accordingly, then your opportunity to do so is lost.
Right. And that, uh, uh, they used to, it,
it, it won't be processed through
mentation ideation and imagination.
To me, when, when Ross says mentation ideation
and imagination, he's talking about thinking about something
then imagining it a different way or,
or ideating it a different way.
And the imagination is a creative process that you know,
that we live in a thought universe.
Our thoughts create. And that's what he is saying.
Like you went through the experience of you had a child
and the child had cancer, and then the child dies
and you, you're thinking like, man, what the hell?
Why, why? And then that's the mentation.
And then you have the thought
of why couldn't it have been this way?
There's the ideation
and then you put conscious thought into imagination into it
not being that way another time if you have another child,
Is there other kinds of processing?
So I, I have a question on the one
that you are showing here, Mike
and the one that Nick, you just, um,
read both have the similar quality where it says that
it cannot be processed using A, B, and C.
Are they implying that it can
or will be processed using mechanisms, D, E and F
or are A, B and C?
The only mechanisms for processing
and similar, um, in this one
where it says the most carefully noted edition would be
that the outside stimulus of the wheel of fortune is
that which offers both positive and negative experience.
Is it implicit that there is also an
inside stimulus of the wheel of Fortune?
Or is it saying that the stimulus of the wheel
of fortune itself is necessarily outside?
I think we're talking about the physical catalyst.
We're talking about the, the outer catalyst coming in
through the South pole of the, of the energy center system.
Uh,
But I think I missed the
first part of your question there.
Well, I'm still just trying to figure out if,
if there's a, a if the antithesis of some
of these concepts is implicit or,
or if by virtue of the fact that it's not mentioned,
like saying that the catalyst isn't processed by, um,
mentation ideation and whatever the other thing is
Imagination. Imagination.
Well,
if catalyst is not processed in those ways,
eventually it gets, it gets shoved down to the body, right?
And then once that catalyst manifests itself as
cancer or whatever, for example,
then um, is it processed?
No, it's not processed at that point.
It's, it's made manifest,
but it's not until we sort of get a diagnosis
or start to suffer the consequences of
Yeah. Fall out
of it that then,
then we can start to deal with it.
There has to be enough acceptance
and forgiveness such that the can so, so
that the catalyst is no longer needed and then it goes away.
All that, that which is not needed falls
away is another great quote.
Wow. That's, that says a lot.
Yeah. Yeah.
They, they, the quote, the bigger, the bigger quote is like,
the goal of this density is to experience all things
desired distilling from them, the love
and light within them.
Nothing shall be overcome.
That which is not needed falls away.
So there's love and light in that cancer somewhere.
You just gotta find it except it
and then it's not needed anymore.
We talk about these snakes.
Yeah. Um, let's see.
That's got a name the U-R-A-E-I.
Uh, I think we brought those up a few times
before. Um,
Well, I noticed that this wheel is not actually equal,
it's not a balanced wheel as it is, it's not constructed.
And I don't know if we'd wanna look at the redrawn ones
or not, but you can see that you've got
differing sets of spokes here,
but you're missing one coming out the bottom, which is
where the missing eighth snake is.
Basically you've got seven snakes each on a spoke,
and then you've got no, no spoke coming out the bottom.
I mean, this wheel is not even, it's not balanced
Unless the bottom is the foundation
or the malkuth or something.
Yeah. In, in this one it definitely
looks like there's a snake.
It looks like it's pivoting on an axis,
so it looks like there's a snake behind it.
Oh, those are, those are like, uh, like forks on a bike.
Yeah, yeah. Like on a Oh, I see. Yeah.
Sort of blocking the eighth snake then
The balancing factor. Yeah.
Yeah. Because the one that's in the picture
that Mike's got up, it does not go in front of the snakes.
Yeah, I, I, I looked at both of them back and forth
and I think I can see what they're doing,
but it's just this, this, because of the color
and shading and all that.
Just like with this, you can tell that
that's a flower a little bit more because of the green stem.
This one, you can tell that that's a wheel a little bit more
because you, you have depth with the way it's colored.
Well, you kind of have that in that you have the two,
the two pillars in the picture that Mike's got here.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. You can see the two pillars.
So you have this sort of perspective seeing them, you know,
one behind the other, but then the wheel itself is very
clearly going in front of both of 'em.
And, and, and I would say that to the extent that the snakes
or the number of snakes,
either one has any significance at all, that's kind of a,
a big change in that card to go from eight to seven
or to have a balanced wheel that's got
even spokes going all the way around it
to now actually really got this one,
you know, kind of empty section.
This wheel, if you were to just spin it around, would,
would wobble.
Well, and in my appreciate, I think in my understanding,
the, the, the seven and eight
are actually relatively linked in their meaning
because the fact that seven is the whole, uh,
representation of the number of sub densities, the number
of chakras, and then if you move to the eighth,
that's a symbol of completion
And the beginning, right?
The first density or the first Yeah, the next octave also.
So at least the imagery here
I think would be similar with either.
And you also have to remember that this,
this wheel isn't a free spinning wheel.
It's got catalysts crawling up and down all sides of it.
So it's, you're never gonna spin
that wheel like that, you know what I mean?
It's, it's being manipulated by the catalyst.
Yeah. I, I wonder if I can get this to tell me
how to pronounce this word uras.
They say, I love that feature.
URA is how you pronounce that snake.
Um, and according to Wikipedia, this is a symbol
of sovereignty, royalty deity, and divine authority.
So the process of the wheel of karma spinning is maybe
that's what I would call this is the wheel of karma.
It's, that's, I don't, I dunno if we talked about that.
They, they use that a few different spots
of the material referring to karma as, as a wheel
and just cyclical like, like, like our entire
galaxy spinning around our planet, spinning
around the sun, spinning around.
Uh, it's all, it's all cyclical. Everything cyclical.
It seems to be for the purpose of having
the continued possibility of experience
of those things which are not yet healed.
So that we have the,
the lesson coming back up again and again.
And that, that's why I think karma is called a wheel.
And that, that's why I think it's called a wheel fortune is
just the, the wheel of karma coming back
and seemingly giving you different varieties
of experience again and again and again.
But this process of giving us all these things could be said
to be coming from the highest place of sovereignty, royalty,
deity, and divine authority.
That's sort of universal.
I mean, I don't think there's any part in the archetypes
that you could apply some of that to, and go, that's true.
We're here to learn that everything is one thing,
which means there's nothing that we could interpret from any
of these cards that is not divine ultimately. Yeah.
Yeah. Um, I don't know how I feel about, about
throwing karma out there almost sort of, you know,
interchangeably with the Wheel of Fortune.
Just because I, I I would not typically
associate Karma predominantly with the body complex
necessarily, or,
Well, this, well This is catalyst that's the mind.
Yeah. Specifically catalyst.
So that catalyst is coming for a reason.
Yes. I would agree that Catalyst got, has got
to be driven somewhat by karma.
And in fact, that would make a ton of sense.
If, if the biases that we're talking about, um, applying
before the Potentiator makes something available
are rooted in our past karma, like
that actually makes perfect sense.
That's of course what's gonna start to, to gen up, you know,
what becomes available to us as karma.
I would just like to see that represented, you know, in the,
at least in the mind as well.
And I, I wouldn't speak to the spirit,
but um, the catalyst of the mind doesn't have a,
uh, any sort of wheel.
Yeah. Yeah. I guess my, well, it
Does have the big sun behind her actually.
Mm-hmm. And I don't know
that it's doing any spinning or anything, but, um,
Yeah, it's interesting that, I mean, what, what
karma might be a a, a poor word.
I think karma literally means action.
And, um, what we think of as, if I, if I
remember properly, what we think of as like this,
this unmanifested thing that we're carrying, I think in the,
in the Vedic language that's more samskara,
there's some other principle
and karma is the word that got maybe misinterpreted
and taken to mean this, this broader thing.
But karma is literally meaning the actions
that are continuously evolving
and unfolding to, to create our reality.
So there, there is a, that
Concept is still important though,
because as I've said a lot of times
before that I don't know that the body complex, well,
I do know that the body complex is not limited strictly
to the third density yellow ray body
because raw explains that to us
and that the body is actually, there are more chakras
and more levels and densities
and types of bodies
that are energetic than there are that are physical, right?
There's one, two, and three is, is what we experience,
and then 4, 5, 6, and seven are all something else.
And so I often think about karma
and often think about the patterning and frequencies
or what have you that we incarnate with
that are in our system, in our collective system,
and then try to figure out how does that represent it,
you know, archetypically, even though I don't think
that karma itself would necessarily exist, archetypically,
'cause it's sort of like these most purified kind of
representations of these energies.
And so the karma might be more like living in between all
of the archetypes.
That's, that's a big discussion.
I, I, I, I thought it's funny that Nick said he's
gonna have some dogs barking when his wife came home.
And now we can talk about a dubus. The uh oh. Oh
Yeah. Oh no,
I, I'm still here in the audio.
I just froze my video.
'cause I have my iPad just laying here as I'm digging
through my Ayurvedic books,
because I know that there's a book
that literally has these definitions next to each other.
Oh, nice. Just trying to find that one.
So what, what does anubis mean?
The god of ary writes protector
of graves, a guide to the underworld.
Anubis has different
Rules. This also one hold your heart
against the feather.
Ah, Is it, is it Annu?
Yes, it's nubis to see if you led a, uh, live a good life,
One of the most frequently depicted
and mentioned gods in the Egyptian pantheon,
however few major myths involved him.
Yep. He's attended the weighing scale during the weighing
of the heart, which is determined whether soul would be
allowed to enter the realm of the dead.
So, but I, but I do, I do think we've seen that, uh,
that symbol of the weighing of the heart with the feather
of maat across many of these cards.
And it seems as though the, you know, the, the, the symbol
of the heart being in, in, in a balance, a kind of state
of balance that, that we have to measure.
You know, are we actually opening our heart through,
through this because of this? I think that's, I
Would contend to even not so much balance in so much
as a lack of density, like releasing density
around the heart shock or the blockages
and so forth to make it lighter than the feather.
Right. Because you don't, you want it to be
lighter than the feather, right.
To, in order to gain entrance into the underworld,
You want it to be Yeah. As light,
as light as the feather.
You don't want the feather to, to pull the scale down.
You don't want it to be that vacuous,
but you want it to balance out. Oh,
You do. So you
literally wanting to
Or to be as light as the feather.
Wow. But no, but no lighter.
Well, that, that's what they were saying.
You want your heart to be as light as a feather.
And it, and it, even to this day,
it pulls into common parlay and oh, he is got a heavy heart.
Something's weighing on his heart, you know,
something's going on.
What about the devil? Okay, so we know
that this is also in the, in another card,
and I'm sure we'll probably pull that one up,
but where else does this devil like Theis,
we see everywhere the,
the pharaohs obviously we see those everywhere.
Like a lot of this, these images, like we've all come
to associate with Egyptology,
but this devil is not one that I've, you know,
have ever associated with Egyptology.
Yeah, there we go.
That's a good question. Where is
that in, in hieroglyphs?
Well, it's presumably there, uh,
and in the, in the original, uh, images, um,
it just might not have been popularized enough to,
to make it into our, our usual appreciation of, of
what, what these symbols are.
And maybe for a good reason, maybe, you know,
people are praying to God's across the ages
for different reasons and they,
they don't have an appreciation of the dark night
of the soul as being something to, to look forward to.
Yeah. I mean it's a, it's a, it's like a big dragon even,
which is also kind of a weird, that's weird mythologically
for Egypt, isn't it?
Like even the Middle East even,
isn't Dragon like really more of a, of an eastern
thing originally? Yeah,
I think that, I think that you're getting into the realm
of, uh, Lucifer is the light bringer,
a dragon breathes fire.
Fire is light. So through bad karma,
which the devil represented in that one, presumably
through bad karma, you know, through, uh,
bad experience
or negative experience,
you gain an understanding the light bringer
What s**t Light on the topic
Know, well, what are the Egyptians
That I, I don't know. I'd have to
Look what mean to them is what I wanna know.
Well, you could say, I mean, I, I got some, some
of this from Chachi PT 4.5, so I dunno
how much I can trust it, but you, you have the goat heavily
depicted here with the goat or the,
or the, the, the ram horns goat
or ram horns here, which is a spiral.
Pretty interesting. And then the hooves represent the goat.
And there, there were no horns on this figure. There was
No horn. Yeah, I saw those, but
It was, it was down here on the, the figures in front
of the, the devil.
Um, so there may be some
What about the, the penis too?
Again, something that is not represented on any other card
anywhere that's on the matrix of the spirit.
Well, here, here, here's what I got is that maybe this,
this horned symbolism represents something that's more
animalistic, primal, um, physical desires.
Um, and,
and so there could be something that is, is, um,
representing the, the use of the, the energies
of the body complex in a, in a way that is not yet refined
or, or just as, just as the, the base appreciation of
the Catholic nature of sexuality might be a part of that.
Okay. So we do wanna feel though
that these two different beings on either side
of the wheel are, they're somewhat
in contrast to one another.
Right? Right. Okay. And then what about the one on top?
And so the, we have the sphinx on top here, I guess.
Um, and we did say that the sphinx,
they said the sphinx related to the concept of time.
And, and when we're talking about card number seven, the,
the chariot with the two sphinxes pulling the mind forward.
Um, but there could be, I always, go ahead.
I always saw that as, uh,
the adept was the figure on the top
and the wheel was the catalyst, the experience,
and the, the two were pulling it one way or the other.
So the, the adept, like in my hand example,
I could've listened to my mom
and then I wouldn't have burned my hand.
And then that would've, uh, if I had listened, then the, the
non evil, the the negative wouldn't have won.
The positive would've won,
but I decided to put my hand on the burner
and the negative catalyst won.
And that's how I had that experience.
That's where I learned don't touch the burner.
Yeah. Being the adept on top,
having the experience which is neutral
until you choose the path
and then you, then you go on that catalytic ride.
Yeah. And this does seem to be clearly the male figure.
And and I I I since the second, uh, the card
before this was the wisdom
or the sage, which is represented as the male figure, uh,
the, the, the
and wisdom is this is the, is the meaning of it.
This could be re reflective of wisdom in the use
of the catalyst and wisdom in the, the filtering
of the catalyst into experience.
And also the, the, the male would be the conscious mind
and notice how the conscious mind stands on, uh, an altar
that doesn't allow it to see the, the
through, you know what I mean?
Like it's standing separate from that wheel
and then it has the experience.
And then, hold on. Lemme say what,
which number is this again?
10, Because it's way different on this one.
All right. I'll pull up, uh, your screen here for everyone
to see what you've got.
Well, it's, I can't actually see the one that you have
behind if, I guess if I get our faces outta the way.
Oh, I see. Yeah. So, so how he is the, the, uh,
adept riding on top isn't aware of all the gears
and all the workings of the unconscious mind below yet.
So this is all happening unbeknownst to the conscious mind.
Hmm. That's how I always saw it.
That makes sense. It does kind of have that,
that look about it.
Yeah. It's sort of constructed in that way
that the thing on top doesn't really have a lot
of awareness about what's going Yeah.
It's just kind of along for the ride.
Yeah. I do wonder though, if the, the platform
that it's on, which is also a circle, does that rotate
or is it always going down this side
and, you know, it's just,
which depends on which one is on its way up to get chosen.
That's presumably what it's doing though with that. Yeah,
That Arrow, right.
It's choosing one of these catalysts.
I think because of the fact that there's these two sides
to it holding, potentially holding up the wheel.
I think it's strongly implying that this is a wheel
that can move, or,
and wheels wheels are that which move,
you know, it's not just a circle
Best folks. Well, and
then, and,
and if you go further into the analogy, like I'm saying
where the adept being the spinx like character, uh,
on top, he's not aware
that his action of putting the spear
creates the choice, but the choice still happens.
You know what I mean? Like, he's got a spear in his hand
that is piercing below that which we, which he hasn't seen.
Meaning the actions that you take
echo into the unconscious, they have ramifications
that you're unaware of.
It's so hard to start reading in things like choice,
which is an entirely, you know,
Different archetype, Different archetype altogether.
And I'm trying to still keep this in the box of
somehow catalyst of the body itself,
but we do have these sort of contrasting energies
and what looks like choice going on
because you know, you've got, will it be this one
or will it be, you know, this other one?
And they said that choice is the unifying archetype.
So I guess when you're trying
to understand all this together, you see choice implicit
with all this po polarity represented everywhere.
Alright. Okay. But the,
but a purely appreciating the catalyst I do think is like
finding gratitude in the midst
of whichever thing is coming up
and your your catalytic experiences.
Yeah, that's what I mean. Like he, the,
the sphinxes using the spear to take the action
and the action has ramifications in the unconscious,
but the, the, um, the,
it's still the choice is made and it,
and the world is happening.
Right. The wheel is spinning, it's just how you interact
with it, how you react to it.
You know, you can, you can, uh, burn your hand
and choose not to do that again
and see the wisdom in not putting your hand on the burner,
or you can just be dumb and just keep going at it.
Yeah, I mean, I was gonna say that it's almost like
that these are the same catalyst
but experienced differently.
And if anything that might be the choice is
that the catalyst is going to be present.
You have perceived it,
and you get to decide at that point, uh,
what your experience of it is gonna be.
So you start deploying the significant then all of that.
But yeah, maybe, maybe they are saying that, that,
that this appears as though there are two different types
of, or two different, uh, yeah,
two different types of catalysts.
But really the catalyst itself is, is the wheel
and the experience of it is sort of the, the choice,
you know, of the, of the adapt
Or the, do they talk anything about the spear symbolism?
They talk about a sword, right? But not a spear.
Yeah. Yeah. This is, I mean, you, I think we could easily,
uh, understand this to be something that's exercising some,
some control or some, some,
I dunno if control's the right word,
but it's like you, you have a handle on the situation.
You're taking an action.
Yeah. But it's, yeah,
it's, I, when I think about wisdom in the application
of things that are occurring in my life, you know,
it's like I've already taken actions in order
to have a refrigerator that has food in it, so I don't have
to struggle with my bodily catalyst from hunger as much.
So there's wisdom in the use of a refrigerator,
and that's, that's, that's in my life
and I don't have to take an action, but,
but it's, the action is refined in some way.
The actions that I'm continuously taking are refined.
My biases of my body complex are refined by many,
many choices over time in constructing this reality,
which is, I think that's what the potentiate,
the potentiation of the, of the body is, is continuously,
uh, engaging and, and, and more
and more forms of wisdom with the use of the body to,
to create a more and more refined balanced body so that
that can, that can proceed onto the great work,
which they talked about in session six of, of the, of the,
with we talked about the balancing exercises,
giving the mind single pointed, balanced
and aware the body, uh,
comfortable in whatever biases
are suitable to that instrument.
And then with the body fully, um, in the balanced position,
then you can move on to the, the work on the spirit,
which is the work co coming from
the catalyst, which is faith.
And I could move on to that, uh, discussion
as we have limited, limited time left.
Um, but this is something when we talk about the experience,
I hope we can spend more time talking about the experience
in relationship to the catalyst of the spirit
of when we're talking about the, the moonlight is, is
what they call the moon, the, the experience of spirit.
But the catalyst of spirit is, is like this, uh, spark
I would see, I would say based on this, this star,
it's like a star and is like a spark to me.
Um, and um,
and this was discussed initially in
question 13 of session 80.
Um, from the point
of view of the ma of the spirit, there seems
to be an excursion,
and they're talking about the effective disassociation on
the service, others adapt,
stumbling block or slowing process.
And ra that's incorrect.
The dissociation from the miasma and of illusion
and mis misrepresentation of each
and every distortion is a necessary
portion of an adepts path.
It may be seen to be to others to be unfortunate.
So they're talking about, uh, freeing ourselves from
the baggage of the attachment to the illusions
as a necessary part of the Adams path.
And, and from this discussion, Don asked, um,
is this an ex excursion into the matrix of the spirit?
Um, Ross said, the excursion of which you speak
and the process of dissociation is usually linked with
that archetype you call hope,
or which we would prefer to call faith.
This archetype is the catalyst of the spirit, and
because of the illuminations of the potentiator,
the lightning struck tower, the potentiate, the elimination
of the potentiator of spirit, this will begin
to cause changes in the adds viewpoint.
So I'm,
I'm throwing way too much together right
now in our limited time left.
Um, but I love
that they essentially distilled hope
and faith as being connected in this process
of catalyzing the spirit.
Um,
Wow.
That rah would prefer call faith. Wow.
But this is called the star in the archetype,
and it's this giant,
What's the thing in the middle?
You mean? At the left side? Looks like a, um,
what is the, uh, it looks like a two dimensional
octahedron, you mean?
No, no, in the middle of the star.
Oh, yeah, that's like a diamond. Yeah, diamond. Yeah.
It's, it's, it's interesting that it's like, uh, it,
it must represent polarity, uh,
because it's black and white.
Mm-hmm. Um,
So this is a star which has in it the potential
of experience potentially of black and white.
We're talking about catalyst that leads to experience.
We're talking about a kind of faith which can lead
to an experience of the spirit,
which is seen in shadow still
when they're talking about the moonlight.
It's, it's something that is just enough light
to see either the truth of the situation dimly
or to see a distortion of the situation in the shadow
and that that dim lighting.
So I think the, the fact
that this light is not fully perceived, uh,
without the potentials of shadow, it might be
what that represents.
How about the, the viewers?
So the, the character is pouring water
both into the water and then onto the earth.
The, the earth side, presumably like watering, maybe
that plant, that lotus plant that seems to be sprouting,
but why pour water, water into the water? There's
Something weird going on there.
Can you hold on that mic real quick? Can you show
It's not water in the other,
or, it certainly looks a little bit less like water.
Two different, these are
two different fluids. Two different
Liquids. Yeah.
Yeah. Huh. Interesting.
Is that better if I go back,
probably get my head outta the way, right?
Because it's trying to focus on my head.
Yeah, that's perfect right there. Yeah. Um, interesting.
And then I also noticed that the,
the person is predominantly standing on the water, you know,
I mean, they have their right, you know, foot sort
of cocked back onto the earth,
but the left foot, the one
that's planted most flat is literally just standing
Off the water. But their spine,
their spine
certainly lines up with the middle.
Agreed. Agreed. That's very, yeah, agreed.
They're pretty well down the middle there.
And if we decided whether this is male
or female, it looks female.
Yeah. I can't even tell
It. It def it definitely seems
to be female to me.
And I think that the, the shape of the lips and the,
and the breast is in is indicated more clearly.
And the hair. Yeah,
Yeah, yeah.
But that's an eight pointed star. Yeah.
You were talking about when did five become
the, the star emblem? That's an eight pointed star.
And this one has four and five pointed stars on it,
which we also know may have been sumerian
additions or astrological.
Mm-hmm. Additions.
Are those dandelions at the top of the, uh, modus fire?
You think? It sure looks like it.
They look a lot more wispy in this.
So I mean, you could say those are seeds.
Uh, yeah, those are the dandelion seeds, which are, I mean,
it's, it's a fun feeling to, to blow on those kinds
of seeds and see 'em going everywhere.
But I, I assume that's,
They like cottonwoods.
Yeah. I assume that's the reason they use that is
because of the, the, the concept of these tiny seeds that
that can go in every direction.
Mm-hmm. Called the butterfly.
And obviously the butterfly is so awesome
that it's like we, we all understand this, this cocoon,
uh, is is broken free,
and it's not just a bird taking flight.
This is something that's breaking out of a shell,
I think. Well, but this is
the catalyst itself
though, is what we're saying, right?
Yeah. The catalyst has undergone a, a metamorphosis or,
Yeah, I think when you see the butterfly on top
of the dandelion seeds, I think it's imp implying
that there's this, this growth that has such potential
that's just beginning to take,
to take the potential of take taking flight.
Um, these seeds are about to go flying and, and
They do look almost even like blowing in the wind almost.
I mean, they do have a, a motion almost to them just
because of all of the individual lines.
Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, face the
Food being different and pouring water
or pouring whatever is in the, you know,
the left hand into the water
and what's in the right hand onto the earth.
Why would you be pour, I mean, the one on the left,
meaning pouring water onto the earth where there's a plant
that makes a lot of sense.
The fact that it's yellow in Nick's cart makes it a
little bit confusing.
But the one that's blue being poured into the blue water, is
that person not just pouring water into water.
Well, if you think about the nature of, of our
magnetic systems and our, I mean, part of me interprets
spiritual energies coming into the body
as being like a fluid
that may have magnetic representations.
It's almost as though we're, we're constantly
funneling energy from the creator back into the creation.
And, and the more we work with the spirit,
I think the more we're, we're engaged in that process of,
of, of a fluid energy flow system.
Well, and it could also be that if,
if we're looking at this representation of the,
the also right,
and some experiences, the experiences being the
material in the picture, some get poured into the ocean
and they're not noticed, and they just dissolved back into
the system, and then some get poured into the seed,
which sprout into a whole different experience.
Interesting. So I wonder if this could represent the pol
the polarization on the, on the side of shadows,
you're pouring back into fueling
that which is already a shadow mm-hmm.
As opposed to that which is new life.
Yeah. Yeah.
There is, there is something exactly about that thing
that you're pouring the water back into water.
There's a, there's a futility or a, a neutrality
or a just a mm-hmm.
Zero effect of, of that.
Whereas on the other one, clearly you're, you,
you have a very obvious, you know, receptor for, for that,
you know, nutrient fluid.
And if the, if the catalyst, you know, is represented in
the pointing of a pitcher is an action, it's a,
it's a doing, it's a, it's a, it's emotion.
You know, the, the catalyst requires decision,
requires, um, emotion, whether mentally,
physically, spiritually,
Or a filtering. If
we're talking about the, the fact that the, the, the,
the, the, the, the filtering of our appreciation
of catalyst is what's leading to the experience.
Yeah. Then that filtering that comes over time of,
of faith might be what's leading to our perceptions
of our spiritual experiences too.
And I think therefore then driving what the catalyst
of the spirit will be.
Because you could also look at this as, um, whether
or not you are actively intending to use the catalyst
and to process the catalyst
and as catalyst of the spirit no less.
Um, because if you do, then yeah,
we see all this potential in this, um, all this stuff,
which is on the right, right.
This person's right, and I know that it's loose.
I know that we don't always want to presume
that everything on the character's right is necessarily
positive polarity and vice versa on the left.
Um, however it does, it does make me wonder whether Rah,
what Rah would've said if Dawn asked
where polarity exists on this card,
because you do also have it in the diamond up top.
And I'm wondering if, if the different polarities
encounter catalyst of the spirit somehow differently and,
and, and make different use of it, I can't suggest
of course, that one works better or,
or, you know, than the other, but perhaps differently.
Yeah. I, I look at this
and what comes to my mind is the spirit is pouring.
Like, uh, so the experience of having, uh,
the, the non veiled experience worked for a time,
but then it was like, like Ross said, playing poker without,
with while knowing the end already.
You know, that's not a very good poker game
because if you already know all the outcomes,
you're not really playing in the moment.
You're not playing in the game.
That's the pitcher being poured back into the ocean.
Uh, the experiment with a tongue seems
to be going pretty well to emphasize separation.
That one would definitely be poured into
the lotus plant there.
And, and the, the spirit is like, wow, we can get a lot
of experience out of this.
Let's give another plant, another system,
a tongue, see where it goes.
Yeah. And there's something about the water returning
to water that does sort of have this feeling
that the adapter, the, the character in this case is mm-hmm.
Um, simply contributing back to the larger collective
catalytic, you know, experience as opposed to the other one,
which is real intentional.
And now there's a new, a very new potential and growth
and you know, this really cool thing going on.
I mean, I, they put a butterfly on top of it just to like,
you know, just make it pop. So interesting.
Well, and I think that the,
when you're looking at the catalyst of the spirit card,
you have to come from the perspective of the
unified consciousness.
The unified consciousness is what they,
they're always referring to, like what are they
only other highly developed sources is how they refer
to the spirit in 93, 12.
And like they're always saying that, you know, spirit is,
uh, it's,
it's well beyond the, the, um, physical,
like the spirit is, is more of more of the, uh,
individuated portions.
Coalesced, I guess will be the, a way to put it.
Catalyst being processed by the body
is catalyst for the body.
Catalyst being processed by the
mind is catalyst for the mind.
Catalyst being processed by the spirit
is catalyst for the spirit.
An individual mind, body,
spirit complex may use any catalyst which comes
before us noticed, be it through the body and its senses
or through the mentation and
or through more any other, more highly developed source.
And use this catalyst in its unique way
to form an experience unique to it with its biases
Highly developed. So,
So the, so the body is through your senses, uh,
the mind is through your mentation
and the spirit is, is kind of what I'm getting from that.
They're basically saying any other highly developed source.
So basically they're saying the spirit
is a highly developed source.
Yeah. Huh.
It's the great work they say. What
The other one you found Mike comparing here. It
Was, I was gonna say, um, this was one of the few times
where they explained the pa the journey
of the archetypes of the spirit.
Well, they said the 15th archetype,
which is called the matrix
of the spirit, has been called the devil.
Can you tell me why that is?
So we do not wish to be facile and such a central query,
but we may note that the nature of the spirit is
so infinitely subtle that the fortifying influence
of light upon the great darkness
of the spirit is very often not
as apparent as the darkness itself.
The progress chosen by many adepts becomes a confused path
as each adept attempts to use the catalyst of the spirit
few there are, which are successful in grasping the light
of the sun, the sun being the significant of the spirit,
which we will talk about in two months.
The, the, the card number 19,
by far the majority of aeps remain groping in the moonlight,
which is number 18, the experience of the spirit.
And as we have said, this light can deceive as well
as uncover hidden mystery.
Therefore, the melody, shall we say, of this matrix
often seems to be of a negative
and evil, as you would call it, nature.
So the progress of chosen by many aeps.
So there's a choice here.
The progress chosen by many aeps becomes a confused path
as each aup attempts to use the catalyst of the spirit.
So there's light that's coming in,
and it, it becomes a confused path that is difficult
to see the light of the sun along that path
Because of what it says above that, which is that the,
the fortifying influence of light, um,
is very often not as apparent as the darkness itself.
And which is why the matrix of the spirit is
archetypal darkness. Right.
That that dark knight of the soul. Yeah.
Yeah. Because that's the thing that seems
to be most evident.
And I think, I mean, to me that is original sin,
that is the, the effect of the original sin,
of the first choice to express outside
of our source or to attempt to or to believe that we could,
or whatever the heck that looked like primordial.
Right. That's a beautiful way to end this, that the, the,
the, the choice to believe in that darkness as
as truth when it was actually the heart of the
distortion of truth.
Exactly. And literally. Yeah, very much so. Yes.
The, the most distorted thing that we,
we invested in is true.
Right. And I mean, really do it.
I mean, Nick, it's why you have a tongue,
like literally like,
because you were that sure that this is the type
of experience that that level is gonna be most
beneficial to you.
But man, it's such an inverted reality that we live in.
Yeah. Live in an inside out reality
where I would say just like that, just like that,
that the darkness, the separation is seemingly far more
visible and, um,
obvious than the one. Well,
And, and then I'll come back to the point, uh, earlier,
you know, if, if you were infinite oneness
and you were getting bored with infinite oneness
and you're like, well, let's try, you know,
infinite oneness, the great light, you know, what, what,
what experience would most personify
not being the great light, not being the one,
it would be Benny darkness.
Yeah, yeah.
But without knowing what that experience is gonna look like.
I mean, yeah, I've read a different channel book that,
that sort of spelled that out more,
but it was like this, this calculated gamble basically,
that a bunch of angelic children just decided
that they were gonna do this,
and they were sort of, we were sort of warned not to
and decided to do it anyway, and now are stuck here.
But if we're all one, those angelic children
must have been the thrill seeking side of the one
that was like, no, I'm gonna get on the rollercoaster.
I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna sit up front, I'm gonna do it.
I'm gonna get on it and I'm gonna ride it.
Ostensibly they were the expression,
the fractualize expression
of the next level up angelic coast above them.
So it was, you know, refract lies.
But again, every time a consciousness becomes fractualize,
it still has the first distortion, which is free will.
And so every time a new consciousness emerges,
or every time we recognize it or whatever it is always first
and foremost got its own choice,
which means it's got its own agenda
and it's got its own soul obviously, and path
and all the things it needs to do in a lifetime. And
Well, when the consciousness becomes self-aware enough
to think of having the experience of separation
at that level, it's having a, a talk, and it's,
and it's oneness, brain divide.
Nah, we got a good thing going,
Andrew, you came from that side.
You came from the side of the mind
that was like, no, don't divide,
Don't divide. Exactly.
Yeah.
Oh, I'm kicking myself all the time, like, you know, sort
of metaphysically anyway, or,
or I should say more aptly, um, attempting every day
to understand this choice at the level that I agreed to it,
at the level that I make it in every moment,
or that I agree to it from the moment I wake
up to when I go to sleep.
And to whatever extent I chose
and agreed to it pre-incarnate as well.
Like it is here it is, here it is here.
There's, there's one thing that I cannot deny is
that I am here in the middle of it.
And so clearly the only thing I can do right now
is try to figure out why
This is, this is such an awesome discussion.
Yeah. This was awesome.
And I thank you guys for commenting so much today.
And we can open, open the chat up now if you're ready.
I always forget to look at the comments.
Well, I appreciate you guys
and uh, thank you for, for listening
and we will continue now
with the unrecorded portion of the discussion.
Thank.