So this month I thought that it'd be fun
to talk about Timespace, which we've alluded to wanting
to have a deeper discussion on Timespace for a while.
I think, and this is equivalent to, um,
the metaphysical dimensions or the inner planes,
and I think it's not equivalent to the unconscious mind,
although there's some overlap in the discussion of
what is possible with the unconscious mind, such as
with dreams and the exploration of time space, I believe.
And so this is something I wanna understand more
and try to figure out, but I'm curious if you have any
thoughts, um, if you guys have any
thoughts on that, what I just said,
Um, you know, to the extent that we, um,
the unconscious mind perhaps as either pre-programmed
before incarnation
or as accumulated experiences through an incarnation,
um, I feel like that has to be recorded, uh, somewhere,
you know, beyond necessarily the physiological, obviously
for, uh, karmic requirements and things like that.
So, um, I expect that that portion would seem to be on,
um, inter planes or, um, outside of space and time anyway.
So, I don't know archetypically if
that falls under experience.
I've been thinking about some of that recently
and wanted to talk to you guys a little bit about will
and desire and memory and things like that
and how those fall into archetypes.
But I, I think that some of that kind
of has to live in Timespace.
And did you have any thoughts on that, Nate, Nathan?
That statement I said in the email?
Yeah, I kind of agree with what, what your initial take on
that as well too, where it's not totally congruent
with the unconscious mind as in timespace,
but it seems like there's definitely
some correlations on there.
So I think of like dreaming too.
You're not always, you're, you're consciously aware
of it when you come back to space time here
and you can remember some of your dreams
unless you're lucid dreaming.
But it just seems like there's other ways
to enter time space
and be consciously aware of it while you're there.
So I feel like that's like a dimension
of the unconscious mind that, uh, it's kind of part of it
that I don't know, has a little bit of differences that way.
Yeah, yeah.
Um, certainly we could get into, um, discussions
of people having like DMT trips
where they're flipped into the Astro planees
and the Astro planees.
What people are calling Astro planees might be more so
what we're calling Timespace,
and I'm gonna metaphysical dimensions
and the unconscious mind.
It might just be something that is, you know, always with us
as with the conscious mind, always with us, um,
as we're exploring with Mindbody spirit in both timespace
and space time, um, with this vehicle.
Um, but yeah, I thought that, uh, a good starting point
for this discussion would be, um, session 79, where
raw referenced, uh, just
or alluded to the fact that, um, in, uh,
question 20 here, when they were asking about the, uh,
don asked about the archetypes that were prior
to the extension of first distortion.
This was earlier part of the galaxies evolution,
but this also applies roughly to right now with, um,
the basics of the foundational archetypes
of the matrix potential or significant.
And they were asked, Don asked about the nature of these
three original, um, types of archetypes across mind, body,
and spirit that existed at that time.
And I, I might as well read this whole thing just
so we have a foundation again.
Um, and the matrix of mind is that,
which from all comes, it is unmoving.
It is the activator and potentiation of all mind activity.
The potentiator of the mind is
that great resource which may be seen
as the sea into which the consciousness dips ever deeper
and more thoroughly in order to id to create ideate
and become more self-conscious.
So right here we have the discussion of the unconscious mind
and the potentiator of the mind, um, which allows the,
um, appreciation of ID ideas
and becoming more self-conscious, um, through exploration of
that unconscious aspect of the self, of the mind,
and the significant of each mind, body, spirit may be seen
as a simple and unified concept.
Um, which this, this statement alone is kind of confusing,
uh, because this is, this is one concept we're talking
about, which is that there is a simple
and unified concept that a significant represented,
I believe is what this means.
Um, um, right now the, since the significant
after the veiling is complex, I think the significant
of mind-body spirit is not a simple concept,
but is a complex concept.
Um, and whether
or not you would call that unified, I think is up
to the person having that, that concept.
Um, but yeah, that,
that's maybe in a separate discussion too.
Uh, once we dig into significance,
I wanna dig into that more.
Um, and, and the matrix of the body.
So we're not, we've gone from talking about the matrix
of mind, potentiator mind, a significant mind, um,
that matrix of the body may be seen as
to be reflection and opposites of the mind.
That is unrestricted motion.
The potentiator of the body is then, is that which,
that which being informed regulates activity.
So, um, the regulation
of the unrestricted motion of the body is
what the potentiator is doing.
So that's kind of like the equivalent of the unconscious
explored by the, um, by the body is, is that, is
that regulator, that regulator of activity,
which they also call wisdom or the sage.
Um, the matrix of the spirit is difficult
to characterize since the nature is the nature
of spirit is less motile, which means capable of movement.
So they started out talking about the, um, the unmoving mind
and then the unrestricted motion body.
And now we're talking about the, the less motile spirit,
the less movable spirit, um,
less capable of movement.
The energies and movements of the spirit are
by far the most profound.
So there are movements to the spirit, but,
and they are the most profound,
yet having more close association with time space
do not have the characteristics of dynamic motion.
And this might even be a good stopping point right now.
Um, what are, what are the characteristics of dynamic motion
that, that they might be referring to here?
Because this is a clue into what, what is this, uh,
close association with timespace, this,
the metaphysical dimensions that the spirit is moving
in, in this profound way?
Yeah. I stopped
and wondered that same thing when I was reviewing it
and was wondering if this has to do with the relative nature
of, of space time.
Um, I'm just thinking of the word dynamic,
and that generally is employing some sort of relationship
between two things and in space time.
That's, um, that's possible. I suppose
We could go down the list of definitions of dynamic here
and see which one Alright, makes most sense.
So a dynamic can mean of a process
or system characterized by constant change,
activity or progress.
So one could say that the nature
of the spirit does not necessarily require constant
change, constant progress.
You can be very, um, static in your very,
IM immo immobile in your spiritual progress.
So that might make sense that the, the dynamic change
that's always happening with the physical
and is usually always happening with,
with the mind interacting with all these thoughts.
Maybe that is the kind of thing they mean by dynamic motion.
Well, so when I think of something like progress,
in this case though, I have to go to the other archetypes
and have to wonder what catalyst experience.
Yeah. Obviously ultimately what the significant decides,
you know, means, what progress is.
And so when we look at just the matrix itself, it's saying,
you know, it's, it's more or less or mostly unmoving.
And as we circle this back,
and I'm glad you you drew it back to the mind as well.
I notice the same thing in review is that two
of these things say that they're not mobile.
And yet in the matrix of the mind it says it's,
it's unmoving and then also that it creates ideates
and whatever the third verb there to me seemed to be.
And I'm like, well, you know, which is this?
And, and that was the question
that I was actually gonna email you guys about earlier.
Um, last week. I had it composed and never had sent,
but I was trying to figure out, um, where, you know,
free will is exercised,
and I know that the matrix of the mind obviously is,
is called the will and the conscious mind,
and then obviously the significant has
to play a part there as well.
And, and so then I still go into these little rabbit holes
of the matrix of the mind is unmoving,
and yet it's also the will and
and like what's sort of, um, activating things outwardly.
And I don't see how those are reconciled, but I'm hoping to,
Well, it's, it, it, there's always an interaction
between the matrix and the potentiator to see the, you know,
the, the nature of the progression, I think,
and certainly
What is the, in that first paragraph where it says
that it's unmoving and yet do the last, um, yeah.
So tension in mind.
Um, so do you think that that, um,
the potentiate of the mind, I guess what I was, um, reading
that the last half of the sentence in order to create ideate
and become more self-conscious that
that was more function of the matrix.
But I suppose in rereading this, can we say
that the potentiate of of the mind is more thoroughly, uh,
creating ideating and becoming more self-conscious?
Um, I guess it's the combination of,
of the two which produces the catalyst.
Um, so consciousness in this case, it's sort of referring
to the two of them collectively. I see
Consciousness is the empty mind, the new mind,
and then the, the unconscious mind is, is the fuel
I guess for that Sure. Emptiness. Yeah.
But it's that it's that motion or the activating force
or the, the precipitating, you know, factor that causes
one state to become another that I'm most looking at.
I'm seeing these verbs like dips yeah.
Creates ideate, et cetera.
And yet seeing that the matrix is unmoving
and the, the potentiator is still, you know,
infinite potential, and yet I'm not sure exactly what its
activated, you know, function looks like as well,
other than they come together.
And then you have a significant right in the context
of this is really just the three,
and it's, can you really just have a matrix
and a potentiator without a significant,
I don't think so. I mean, that's
how the, the foundations
of the universe required the whole, the whole system to have
the concepts, the, you know, the, the simple unified concept
of what this is about, what is going on
with this interaction.
I think that's what the signator is bringing into light is,
is the nature of that interaction
between the matrix and the potentiator.
I think that this is where the, this sacred geometry
that tetrahedron actually comes from,
because it starts as this triangle
and then the fourth point.
And so in this case, the triangle might be, um, keter
or, you know, whatever you would call kind of the,
the highest light in this, um, system.
But anyway, the fourth point steps back away
to see all three together
and sort of decide what they are, what they mean.
Yeah.
And I think that that this, you know, this may be a,
some more nuance in how we're supposed
to view the archetypes because, you know, you, we, we are,
we are getting as as mind body, spirit complexes, we get
to choose when to become, when to, when to clothe ourselves
with each archetype's persona.
And so there is the, the, the will, the, the,
maybe the fool is the appropriate archetype here,
or the choice is the archetype that might be to some degree,
uh, progressing, um, the selection process
of when we're activating each archetypal nature.
Um, the, and the awareness of the purpose of the
things in our mind would be the significant of, of mind that
I would love. And I know that,
that, that, that, this isn't it,
but I, that was what was, I was wanting to really, you know,
pick your guys' brain about recently here was
how the will is sort of spread across those archetypes
that we know are associated with it.
And then also where desire, for example, it seems associated
with will, but it's gonna have experience
and some, I guess everything sort of has a little bit
of every article in it.
And what, what did we end the last one with?
It was the, the statement about the,
the archetypes are a resource
for the development of will and faith.
Yeah. And that's kind
of an overarching theme, I suppose.
Exactly. Yeah. It seems
Like, like a cyclical process to me too,
where it's like you keep going through this,
you have the desire of the matrix,
you have these experiences that happen then from there,
and that's the current state.
And biases are then what your significant is.
So then you can kind of reintroduce the desire
for new experiences, but it'll all be based
or seen through the significant of your past, um,
experiences that way.
Yeah. I dunno if that's necessarily right,
but that's just the way I've kind of pictured the two.
So it just kind of keeps progressing
and keeps, um, moving in that direction back.
I assume that's more true with the complex significant
as every, every layer
of lesson starts adding onto the previous ones.
And we, we have a nature
of identity which is bundled up into a complex idea of self.
Yeah. And no, that right there is sort of at the heart of,
you know, what it is that I'm trying to, I guess sort
of figure out where, like, for example,
the ego lives versus the higher self.
And if I probe GPT about some of the law of one stuff,
it'll tell me that the significant is sort
of the essential self or the truest or highest self.
And yet, um, to me, this thing that's deciding
what everything means all the time
to me feels very much lower in consciousness than that
because I'm assigning meaning to all facets
of the illusion at all time, which I don't really think
that my higher self would be doing.
Well, ego is certainly a tricky word.
They, you know, when raw talked about the word ego,
they said this concept isn't very useful.
And then when they did say it had meaning,
they was specifically saying in the context of the,
the yellow ray, solar plexus, you know, blockages
and distortions of just one particular chakra,
which is the one that's blocking the activation of the heart
through the way we're
perceiving ourselves in relation to others.
Basically.
I could see why raw might say that that word may not be
as useful because they're taking into account all
of the connotations and current descriptions, definitions,
and understandings of it, and which are varied, obviously
and widespread from young and Freud and, and everyone else.
And so it's a little bit hard to use a word like that.
And at the same time, I, you know, I use it sort
of interchangeably with the lower aspects
of consciousness than thinking
and feeling and things like that.
Yeah. And if you think about identity
and that, that identity, they say all is identity,
and our identity can be in any one of these
archetypes at any time, we can just become that.
And that that's all we are is the purified
archetype existing. That's,
Yeah. The, the
most beautiful way I've ever heard
that said is you are who you say you are.
Yeah. And you are who you believe yourself to be.
And, and that goes for archetypes obviously, as well.
And, uh, you know, most essentially I think
that goes to archetypes
Yeah.
Seems to be the ultimate expression
of the archetype of mind.
And the best way to be of service is being able to
consciously be able to enter what's needed in
that current situation, um, at will.
But, and as Mike said, the purified version of it.
Well, and I think that this is specific
to the balancing exercises as well.
I've, I've been thinking a lot about this
and polarity in the choice
and how these, you know, how this starts
to make a little bit more practical sense so
that if we're making an unconscious decision
or if we have an unconscious reaction to something,
polarity is virtually none.
Like, so the analogy I'm always using about getting cut off
in, in traffic, if, if your range of reactions to
that is somewhere between honking your horn
and flipping somebody off, your, the amount of polarity
that you've managed to,
to create in your consciousness about the total range
of available options is very, very, very small.
Which means that the ensuing catalyst and, and benefit
and all of that, I think is also gonna be greatly minimized.
Whereas stretching that out to, to a very, very wide range
of, of possible reactions
before making that choice, I think is what really drives
polarity as it pertains to the choice.
And so, to that extent, I think that, that creating
that polarity means embodying the archetype that is going
to be closest to those extremes that might be on either end
of whatever spectrum of possibility that we're looking at.
And I think that most of those lie between sort of the,
the mercy and severity, um, kind of aspects.
And if you can embody one to
and really embody it, it means
that you're more fully polarizing and,
and creating a broader spectrum of available choices.
And I think then when you make the choice that
that choice becomes far more powerful
because it was chosen from a much
broader range of possibilities.
Yeah, I think that the, I mean, a lot of
what I see when I look at these, uh,
ma major arcana archetypes, they feel like connected
to the middle pillar aspects of the, um, the tree of life
that you're talking about, where finding the, the other side
of it is, I think maybe finding the balance
that is finding the purified, um, nature of that, which is,
for example, in traffic,
somebody randomly popping in in front of you.
That's some intense catalyst.
And you know, the question is how are you gonna,
how are you gonna react to it?
And the, the most pure way to react to it is to, um,
increasingly see this as God is now coming to you
to allow you to wake up to the truth
of oneness and that kind of thing. Oh,
A hundred percent. But I think that
this is also reflected in when the student
is ready, the teacher will appear,
and that frankly, that may be catalyst to,
and to the extent that it is catalyst,
like when you said it's major catalyst, that for people
who are sort of aligned to an experience
or have an expectation
of a different driving experience than that, then yeah,
that's sort of an easy catalyst.
And yet I've always contended that there are other people
who will get cut off and who will barely tap their brakes
and keep singing along the radio and,
and notice nothing at all.
And, and therefore the exact same objectively
same event happens to do two different people,
and yet one catalyst is, is produced,
but not objectively outside of that person,
but entirely subjectively
because of those predisposed expectations about the way
that a commute is supposed to look.
Yeah. Let's, um,
yeah, I, I was reminded of this, of this, uh, quote here,
um, when they said that, um,
we observe your interest in the catalyst of pain.
This experience is most common among your entities.
The pain may be of the physical complex, more often it is
of the mental and emotional complex.
And some few cases, the pain is spiritual
and complex nature.
This creates a potential for learning.
The lessons to be learned vary. Almost always.
The lessons include patience, tolerance,
and ability for the light touch.
Very often the catalyst for emotional pain,
whether it be the death of the physical complex
of one other self, which is loved
or some other seeming loss,
will simply result in the opposite.
And a bitterness and impatience, a souring,
this is catalyst which has gone awry in these cases.
Then there'll be additional catalyst
provided to offer the unmanifest itself further
opportunities for discovering a self
as all sufficient creator containing all
that there is and full of joy.
Mm-Hmm. It just keeps on
coming to us if we don't see it.
Yeah. And,
and that going awry there, um, just going back
to our earlier mentioning of the course in Miracles to me,
that bitterness and patience, souring all of that is that,
um, perfectly tuned emotional guidance system that we have.
And even though we, we don't interpret it correctly,
this paragraph right here literally just says,
says that whole thing to me.
It says it very clearly that, um, we fail
to interpret when our emotions are telling us
that we've got a completely false or limiting belief.
And the more bitter, the more impatient,
the more sour we feel, um, about it, is a reflection of
how more fully, um, we believe that, uh,
something that we're encountering is not
of the one infinite creator.
Yeah. So I, I would like to jump back into the,
go back all the way back to the nature of spirit here,
discussion all, um,
so we were, we were talking originally about the,
the energies and movements of the spirit are
by far the most profound, yet having more close association
with time space do not have the characteristics
of dynamic motion.
And this, um, there was the other, uh, concept that they,
they have, uh, when they're discussing the experience
of the spirit and that, um, many adepts remain
groping in the moonlight, that they're not able
to basically find the, the true nature of spirit,
spiritual energy, that true nature of the light,
which is the sun, the significant of the spirit
that remains, um, undiscovered by,
by even most adepts apparently.
And that, that to me suggests that there's, um, that,
that might be why there's less movement also is
because we're almost like in a, a room that like,
like maybe the mind and the body are like being in a room
or an environment which has a certain
amount of lighting in that room.
And so we're playing with, with the energies of that room,
trying to build something with a little bit more light,
not realizing that the light is not
coming from the room itself.
The light is coming from the, you know, the, the, the, the,
the nature of being, which we are selecting,
which is the nature of the, the self and, and,
and the metaphysical dimensions
and not, you know, the nature
of self and the physical dimensions.
This is the byproduct of the, of the, of the choices
of experience, I guess, of how much will
and faith to use to pull in how much light,
how much love into the, into this current moment.
Um,
I think it kind of as a reflection of
what you're saying about identity as well,
how much we're identifying as our space time experience
as opposed to realizing how
our space time experience is only an analog and,
and a result
and a reflection of what's going on in Timespace.
Yeah. That's why I think if I could build off
what you were saying there, Mike, it also has to do
the way we interpret spirit has to determine how, I guess,
how distorted our mind and body are as well,
because it's, I think I said earlier in one
of those other previous quotes that the mind
and the body need to be of a certain level of balance
before you can even begin to perceive the spirit.
So you can have distorted views still
even viewing the spirit.
So that's kind of the groping in the
moonlight that I see as well too.
But it's, uh, it's a complicated process,
but it's affected by more than more
of the mind and body as well too,
Right? Yeah,
yeah.
It's like the, it's like we're training ourselves even
as children, I suppose we're, we're building up the ability
to be less addicted to the, the temptations
of the sugary foods and the,
and the experiences around us that are, um, making us
so focused on all the things around us,
and then once we're balanced enough to not be so,
um, I guess distracted.
Maybe that's one way of looking at it.
But, but that, go ahead.
Which arcana is the potentiator of the spirit? Is
That the, that is the lightning.
The lightning, okay. I didn't know if it was that
or the, um, the catalyst, but yeah,
The lightning struck tower
Next sentence in there actually talks about it right then.
Yeah. So
Yeah, Leslie one may see the matrix as the deep,
the matrix of the spirit as the deepest darkness
and the potentiator of spirit as the most sudden awakening,
illuminating and generative influence.
So this is the nature of spirit is the nature of the
metaphysical planes more so, which is
that which can pull in the sudden awakening, illuminating
and generative influence,
which is like a lightning striking.
And it's interesting that, that lightning is
the potentiator and not the catalyst to me,
or even the experience.
Like to me, when you bring lightning into the darkness,
it's like, oh, that must be what's here to change
or that's what the experience is.
And yet that's, that's the potentiator.
What is the, what's the catalyst of the spirit?
The star, let's Ask that, that's actually one
that confuses me as well too.
'cause it seems like that's sudden illuminating is actually
the catalyst being presented to you.
So I I'm not entirely sure either, Andrew.
That was kind of one of my questions,
particularly to the spirit at least.
Yeah. Is the star, um, do we associate that
with the sun specifically, or, or,
and not to get into the astrological overtones
that may have been added after the fact, but I, I wanna,
I certainly like to think of, uh, the star as the,
the window into perceiving the sun, the beginning
of the window, which they say the, you know, the,
originally this was most commonly called hope,
but they say this, they prefer to call it faith.
Um, so I I I feel like, you know,
light itself is the lightning to a degree.
Light itself is, is what's needing to enter the picture.
And then once it's entered the picture,
then you have o opportunity to have an observation.
And that that's coming from the,
the pinpoint which you're able to perceive with the,
with the experience of spirit
and the moonlight you can perceive, um,
what the catalyst was was there for.
And, um, yeah, I don't know if our,
our words are gonna make it easier for people to understand
or not, but yeah, faith is the best
word they had for it, I guess.
And what's the experience? That's the moonlight.
No, that's right. Okay. Hmm.
So I thought these, these would be just,
maybe we can completely step back now and, uh,
and say this is, this is our foundation for diving into, um,
the discussion of what, what is actually the nature
of time space as, as we would directly experience it,
um, as opposed to this broad philosophical concept
of the archetypes, which are informing
our appreciation of the nature of spirit.
Um, and so to start with that one, I thought I, I,
I really loved, um, I'm gonna go back to session 70 here.
Um, 70 point 12,
uh, so we
don't have to read the question on this one.
They said we refrain from speaking of correctness.
Um, but they said in timespace,
which is precisely as much of yourself as is space time,
all times are simultaneous, just as in your geography,
your cities and villages, just
as in your geography, your cities
and villages are all functioning, bustling
and alive with entities going about their business at once.
So it is in time space with the self.
I have one question to ask as we try
to answer this exact thing here.
Do you take this to mean that the entirety of you
exists within space time and time space,
or just that the amount of you
that is in space time obviously is equal to that,
which is in time space,
but that, does this leave room for another aspect of self
that exists in dimensions that are not timespace?
So we talked about the inter planes
and, you know, maybe slightly higher dimensional realities,
but are higher
and higher dimensional realities always still necessarily a
part of the timespace, uh, paradigm?
Or is that really only kind of a three, four
and five type of thing?
Thing, or maybe 3, 4, 5, 6.
And I'm not sure if I asked
that question very well, but there
You go. I'll let Nathan go first.
Do you have any idea on that, Nathan?
Well, I guess from the little bit I guess I think might be
grasping is I, I do think that there are time space levels,
I guess to it for different densities like that, if that's
what you're asking Andrew, like a third density timespace,
fourth density timespace.
Um, I think there's differences to them, like, so
that when you go to the inner planes,
there are different levels and I, I can't remember exactly
where I'm drawing that from, but
that was at least my take on it.
But they can still communicate between the two.
Sure. And so what I really want to feel here is
that the spirit, or perhaps the matrix of the spirit
or the, the most essential self exists in a, a state
that transcends the time, space
and space time duality entirely.
And, and maybe that's the unmoving part.
Um, but the rest of time space
and space time that seems to be densities
and layers of consciousness that comprise, um,
the body complex, soul, body, energetic bodies, et cetera,
and on down from there.
But I am, that's how I see this.
And I'm, I'm not feeling that we exist entirely
in our totality within one half
of this paradigm or the other.
But I do read this in what they say very straightforwardly,
that it's precisely as much of yourself as in one
as is in the other, because they're reciprocal.
But I still feel that there's this more the monad, you know,
the divine spark, whatever you want to call it, that that
is what's coming down through this paradigm in this system
to express in all the ways that we get to experience it.
Yeah. It's, it's always all the self, it just depends on
what, what you mean by the self as
to what you're looking at.
So I'm the highest identity, I think the, the aspect
of self as aspect of the one infinite creator,
and again, the unchanging unmoving, you know,
that which exists outside of space time.
And I guess when I'm saying that what I say exists outside
of space time, I think also exists outside of time space.
And I know that what's in space time is a reflection
of what's expressing in time space.
And yet I'm still, I'm still feeling pretty resonant
with the fact that there's something that's outside of, of,
Of, yeah.
Space and time, obviously. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well that, yeah, that's, that's a big discussion I think.
But I mean, that's getting the nature of the octaves
and the nature of the creator too.
Um, but I, I think for now, I think I wanna, I wanna,
I wanna, um, get, get deep, deep,
deep dig into the nature of space time and time space
and the relationship between them.
'cause I think that'll be more informative to, for us, just
to understand what we're experiencing in,
in mind body spirit complexes right now.
And, um, well, I guess another quote that I really liked,
um, was that when they described, um,
that space time is, um,
is related to function.
Um, lemme find that quote here.
Space time relates to function
and time, space relates to being, um, I guess, I guess
that's essentially what we're talking about here though.
Um, um,
but the, the fact that all
of our existence when we're looking in the time space
dimensions, which in a certain state of dreaming,
which we'll talk about later, dreaming can open up the view
of self across of all, all of time,
because that self is always accessible to us.
I think that's why we have a higher self,
which is drawing from an, uh, you know, the highest aspect
of ourself for knowledge, the totality, mind by spirit,
complex totality, that a higher self aspect of us,
I think is communicating to us, um, through the,
the time space, which is where we can, we can, um,
choose to hop ahead.
I think with, with our, our ability to internally go, go
and explore all of our future self in time.
And to a degree, I assume all of our past self is all, all,
all still being integrated into a path
of no longer needing time to have an our, our existence
and in theory, no longer needing space
to incarnate in anymore after we learn all the lessons.
Um, and our,
and I think that also relates to
everyone learning all the lessons,
because we're still here as one being trying to help itself.
Um,
I saw this reflected, believe it
or not, in a headline actually yesterday or the day
before that, um, scientists have come out with a theory of,
um, paradox free time travel.
Um, and, and to sum it up, it was that, um, they decided,
and, and how they did this mathematically, I couldn't begin
to tell you obviously,
but they determined that mathematically, if someone were
to go back in time and make a change that we would conceive
of as causing a paradox that they said that event,
like if it were, um, um, I think the example they used were,
um, uh, an epidemic for example.
And they went back and tried to prevent it from breaking out
that they said that it would, um,
find another way to break out.
And that effectively it wouldn't actually change, uh, much.
And to your point about what you're talking about lessons
and kind of how we're talking about all this working in sort
of this analog functioning,
and then we describe it in how we perceive things in sort
of the digital equivalent.
Um, I think that's even what they're saying is
that they're just saying, you know, from an analogs, uh,
perspective, from a time space,
from a spiritual perspective, the higher self is going
to call forth what needs to be called forth in order
for the lessons to be learned.
And there isn't really any getting around that,
but interesting that scientists
and mathematicians seem to be thinking that
that's plausible.
Still trying to find that other quote. I couldn't find it.
Um, well, yeah,
I wanna jump ahead now
and get into the nature of precognition in dreams.
Um, I did it again
in 86.
Oh, I see what I'm doing wrong.
I didn't, I just have to put an 86, not 0.7.
Um, so, um, I,
I'm debating if we should talk
about, I guess it'd be good to cover this.
We, I don't know if we've co covered dreams
in, in our talks yet.
Um, but I think this also gives more,
more clues into the nature of the interrelationships
between, um, space time and time space here.
Um, So Don asked, you stated
that dreaming if made available
to the conscious mind will a greatly in polarization
would you define dreaming or tell us what it is
and how it aids in polarization.
And Ross said, dreaming is an activity of communication
through the veil of the unconscious
mind and the conscious mind.
The nature of this activity is wholly dependent upon the
situation regarding the energy center, blockages,
activations, and crystallizations
of a given mind, body, spirit complex.
So, um, it's completely dependent on
how we are activated in our shocker system when we go
to bed at night, as to what our dreams can do for us.
I guess that's my interpretation of that.
I saw that too. I thought that was also
very important, important.
Anytime they say things like wholly or completely
or, you know, I definitely pay more attention.
Mm-Hmm. So in one who is blocked at two
of the three lower energy centers,
dreaming will be a value in the polarization process.
And that there will be a repetition of those portions
of recent catalyst as well as deeper held blockages,
thereby giving the waking mind clues as to the nature
of these blockages and hints as
to the possible changes in perception,
which may lead to the unblocking.
I think I still go through this a lot.
This is the most common kind
of dream I think everybody has when you're waking up.
And there's just some weird symbology in there.
And that relates to further balancing
that we could be doing in the, in the lower,
um, energy centers.
Um,
That kind of gets into like the dream language idea too,
like of these reoccurring things
and if there's differences like
that can help you identify it.
And I know David Wilcox's, at least one that talks about
that too, with colors you've see in dreams relating
to certain blockages at times
or levels of height that you're at that you can relate
to different blockages that way.
And at least I found that to be beneficial in trying
to determine where the blockages are and or what they are
and how to, how to go about healing 'em. But
I think the, what they're saying, the emotive resonance
that they mentioned in the,
the next paragraph is really key too,
because a dream, just like regular life,
is really just the representation of our encounter
with frequency and energy and, and information.
And so we assign anthropomorphic, you know, um,
qualities and all that to, to what it is that we're needing
to experience.
But it's all basically just the music of consciousness.
Right? Yeah. Good.
So in other words, even though I don't remember any
of my dreams, I recommend to people who are trying
to figure theirs out, how did you feel after that dream?
You know, so they'll describe something really bizarre
and they're like, just isn't that totally bizarre?
But it's like, okay, but how, how did you feel?
You know, in it, you know, were you excited or scared
or, you know, whatever.
And I think that that emotional response is what's telling
us, you know, uh, at a vibratory level what's really seeking
to, uh, to happen.
And it's really super important
to write it all down right away.
And once you've got it all written down, then it's helpful
to look at every single aspect of it
and say, where's, where's the most,
what is the emotional feeling I get around
that particular thing and that particular thing.
And then just try to be even creative in your understanding
of what could be a symbol amongst all the weirdness
that you were seeing in there.
And then just, just allow yourself to feel the feeling
of each of these little aspects of it.
And that's where the, you know,
maybe even wanna write that down too.
'cause that that's where the real clues come in
when you see, when when the list of feelings is compiled
and what the dream is saying about the relationships
between those feelings, then I think that
that helps you draw the much, much clearer picture.
Totally. Yeah.
And then even relating that
to the different energy centers from there to try
to decide which one might contain the blockage
or if any waking experiences you've had that can relate
to those, that you can kind of go back
and then analyze that catalyst again. Um,
Have Some success in doing that.
So along those lines then, what,
what do you think this comment about two
of the three lower energy centers means?
I would, I would presume just sort of logically that
that's gonna be the second and third, uh,
'cause I would presume
that they're gonna be just much more active.
But I have to wonder what kind of dreams you have if you,
if you're deeply blocked at, at a root level, or
I think they might've said that can't be blocked too.
Okay. Do you Remember that?
Yeah, I remember there being some debate over it if it was
even possible or not.
I don't really think raw ever gave a definitive answer from
what I remember, but it, it seems like to me
that you have like issues dealing with survival
and those kind of things that could show up in the dream
then as a possibility of a red ray blockage or,
or distortion maybe if,
if it's not letting all the energy through all the way.
Yeah. I think maybe they, they,
they did leave it ambiguous.
Um, um, so one, one quote don't exactly on
that subject was, um, um,
so the first balancing, so there's balancing that has
to happen is the malkuth
or earth vibratory energy complex called the red ray
and understanding and acceptance
of this energy is fundamental.
And then they said the next
energy conflicts, which may be blocked.
So I guess in this sense, the blocking,
what they're calling blocking blockage is related
to the need for balancing. Um,
Was there context around that's very interesting that they
referred to MACU there?
Um, I mean that wasn't within the context
of any Tree of Life discussions,
Right? They threw that in there.
Yeah. And that's a, that's a mapping that I, you know,
I also kind of subscribed to or see those correspondences.
'cause there's seven levels in the tree,
but just very strange
that they just went straight to malkuth.
Yeah. Maybe it's
because it's impossible a lot to see them as the same
and the understandings that have been given to that word.
Yeah. Okay.
It's, which is very helpful, very helpful
for the understanding the archetypes
of the this tree of life.
Oh yeah, definitely.
Um, I'll see if they mentioned that elsewhere here.
So the other other one here they said was, um, relating
to homosexuality, oh gosh.
Um, there's a, there's a possibility of a lack of desire
or blockage of the red ray reproductive energy, um,
that can happen with those
who are in overcrowded situation under a constant bar
environment from other selves.
Um, so that's one kind of red ray blockage
That's, hang on.
Can you go back to that real
Quick? I'm,
I'm nervous to ever mention this part of the book.
Well, well I, no, I mean,
I wasn't noticing the homosexuality part
'cause I didn't see it actually mentioned in
that center paragraph,
but I just saw the, the plight
of every introvert I've ever known. Right?
Yeah, that's true. That's true. Yeah.
Um, so
yeah, I could re I could, uh,
Well, we, we don't, we don't necessarily have to,
but I was, I was only noticing
that whole overcrowded situation. They
Basically are saying that homosexuality comes about more
in the overcrowded situations than in the
lesser crowded situations.
Um, because of the constant bombardment from other selves
in those situations, um, causing those
who are especially sensitive to not feel the desire
to be of service to other selves.
This increases the probability.
Now there's other factors to it they've said such
as the number of incarnations in the opposite sex gender
from previous lifetimes.
But, but this part of it,
this overcrowded situation increases the probability
of the lack of desire or blockage of the red ray.
You know what's very interesting there, um,
Mattias DeStefano, uh, equates the, um, the red ray
or root energy center to the law of the universe.
Not so much associated with the energy of survival,
but, um, he refers to it as generation,
and this kind of does here too red ray reproductive energy,
which is that just most fundamental need to, to produce.
And I, and if I'm not drawing too short of a,
of a line here, that seems to be what raw is saying is
that the tendency toward, um, homosexuality
or maybe homosexuality as an expression is a result
of this blockage of red ray reproductive energy, which,
and again, I see why you would wanna be careful about,
you know, about studying this here
because if they didn't go into it at great length,
then it puts a lot of speculation on
Our purpose. Yeah,
yeah. Um,
but yeah, ultimately my purpose here is understanding, um,
why they might've said two out of three.
Yeah. And, um,
but this one here, um,
they discussed a little differently.
Um,
so I, I guess this is maybe not what I was thinking of.
Um, yeah, maybe I'll, I'll
Skip pretty facet of the mind and body though.
The root will be given opportunity to function first.
Yeah. Wow.
Interesting. Because if you're, if you're thinking
of archetypes, those may not be associated with the root.
Um, those could be associated with any part
of the energetic system.
Um, and so as the adep choosing an archetype to embody, um,
I wonder if we get to make that choice
before the root is given the opportunity to function,
which would, it seems like draw line,
finding immense fear in, in, in a, a mortal situation,
by the way, you could be forced with your own mortality
unexpected and have a choice to embody a different,
a different archetype in that moment as opposed
to the root O obviously going, oh s**t.
I think, uh, our minutes are numbered here.
Anything, were you gonna say something?
Uh, I was just gonna say, I guess the way I interpret this
is more of like the specific experiences.
So the red ray having to do with safety,
sexuality and survival.
If you have blockages there, that'll block it.
So you won't even have that opportunity necessarily, Andrew,
to even be in that correct mind state
unless you go through the experience comes through all
of the energy centers up to then be able to make
that conscious choice from there.
But if you have these lower blockages,
you're not even in the right state of mind to be able to,
um, react with that consciously.
Right. Which, which archetype chooses
to embody a different archetype.
I
Don't think that's, um,
necessarily how, how, how it's working. Um,
Well, I mean, I mean, when the adapt is going
to try on another archetype, right.
To clothe themselves in, in a different archetype.
That's what we've talked about a lot is sort of a,
the skillset that the adapt is, is building.
I'm just wondering which, which, um, part
of the archetype is,
or which archetypes, I guess, are involved in choosing,
you know, realizing that there's an opportunity
to embody a different archetype
and that it will be beneficial.
I think when you put it that way, I think
that definitely would be the great way.
The great way is the, is the, is the viewer
of the archetypal path
And the realization that, that this is the process
and you see it as a process beginning to end. Okay. That
Makes sense. Yeah. Yeah.
And when you're not,
when you're not seeing it on the archetypal level, then,
then you haven't really fallen into the great way yet.
Yeah, no, that makes sense.
You might still be having transformation.
Well, we almost all certainly do actually to one degree
or another, but to the extent that we're resistant to it or,
or blocked it may be very long and slow
and hard transformation as opposed
to once you fall into the great way and,
and realize that you can transform through faith
and will, then it all becomes a lot easier.
That makes a lot of sense. Thanks Mike.
It does. Initially I was thinking the significant,
but that doesn't make sense because it's,
you're still seeing things through the biases you need
to be at that higher level of transform to be able to see it
through the, through the great way perspective.
So yeah. Yeah, I think that makes,
Um, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Yeah. Okay.
So, um, we can get through this dreaming stuff, uh,
relatively quickly move on to the subject of death
and time space relating to the death.
Um, um,
but yeah, so I guess we'll leave it
as a question mark why they said two out
of the three lower energy centers.
Um, I assume that's just
because of the fact that that's what it takes
to be working on something in your dreams.
Um, so the type of dreaming
or communication through the veiled portions of the mind,
this type of dreaming also occurs
with those MINDBODY spirit complexes, which are functioning
with far less blockage and enjoying the green ray activation
or higher activation at those times
at which the MINDBODY spirit complex experiences catalyst
momentarily re blocking or baffling or
otherwise distorting the flow of energy influx.
Therefore, in all cases, even with green ray activation,
they're saying when all cases it is useful to a mind, body,
spirit complex to ponder the content
and emotive resonance of dreams to help
with understanding these, um, blocking flows of energy.
And then this more exciting portion of this, I feel, um,
once we've worked through all these significant blockages
for those whose green ray energy centers have been
activated, as well as
for those whose green ray energy centers are offered an
unusual un blockage due to extreme catalyst, such as
what is termed physical death of the self,
or one which is beloved occurring
and what you may call your near future.
And boy does that open your heart.
Like, uh, for example, when my, when, when our, our cat
or when our, when my wife's dog, which she had for many,
many years passed away, she had the dream
of him passing away that day
and reached out to me, uh,
when she was away at work moments before he passed.
And then I was able to go be Holden while he passed.
And, uh, and she just,
she just knew it right when
it was happening because of her dream.
Remind, reminding her right at that moment. Um,
Uh, But but what they're saying had
Something, oh, sorry.
I was just saying had something similar
too with the, with the dreams.
What Milan's like six months leading up
to my brother's passing,
it just felt like there was gonna be,
I knew there was gonna be something traumatic,
but I didn't know specifically who it was
or what it was going to be.
But looking back, it kind of all adds up now.
But it wasn't necessarily clear as
what you were saying your wife was seeing, so it's,
I don't know, it seems like it could take
a number of different shapes there.
It's a matter of interpreting them too.
Yeah. I probably should have finished reading the sentence
before I went into that, but, um, yeah,
Sorry.
Such as what is termed the physical death of the self
or one which is beloved occurring in
what you may call your near future
dreaming takes on another activity.
So now they're getting to pre-cognition here,
but they're saying that, um, an unusual state of un blockage
or in a general just activation state of the heart,
when your heart is very open,
this is when this is all possible more
and this is what may loosely be turned precognition
or annoying knowing, which is prior to that,
which shall occur in physical manifestation in your yellow
ray, third density space time.
Um, so obviously here we're talking about timespace Yeah.
Which is viewing into the future.
And what does this classify as, would you say
that precognition is catalyst, for example,
and introduced by the higher self?
In order for us to make choices about
what we're pre cotting,
I don't know if the higher self is involved
or if it's literally just you're opening your eyes
and looking around on the inner dimensions.
Right. But it has to fall into, you know,
our archetypal experience somehow.
Yeah. Just, just in the same way space does,
I think space, looking at space
time and looking at time space.
Same opportunities for catalyst.
However, maybe maybe there's more going on
with the spiritual nature when you're looking for
It. Yeah. Because the fact
that it's precognitive is the part
to me, like you could, you could have the most perfectly
architected dream to deliver the most beautiful
and perfect amazing message just for you,
or you can pre cognate, which means
that you're still gonna be left
to interpretation and things like that.
So this particular type of information coming through
to me seems, you know, purposeful perhaps, you know,
in a slightly different way than, than, um, you know,
a landscape that we might build out of our own,
you know, imagination or,
Yeah.
And I think there's, I,
I wonder if there's like angelic guides
with everyone when they're dreaming every night
with every dream, just like nudging you
to see this a little bit more clearly, see this
with more attention so that,
because that's what's gonna help you and maybe they're
working with your higher self too,
Right? But in
a, and again, in a precognitive, it's not just in
how you, you might assimilate the emotional responses
or, you know, kind of clear, well, it might be,
maybe it is you pre cognate something
and you see the limiting belief
that might be calling that to you.
And by correcting that belief, um,
that thing may not still need to come anymore.
So I could actually see a very useful, um, you know, thing
for, but if it's something that's beyond your control
or outside of your influence, if it's something global
or with someone else, then Right.
You know, I'm not sure what you, what you do with that.
I think there's other, there's other, uh, other kinds
of dreaming here that they talk about where
it's like the vision from the mystic where yeah,
you could shift the timeline.
Alright, I think that's a, that was a
different discussion here.
Um, so, but I'll finish this part here.
So this property of the mind, this precognition depend upon,
depends upon its placement to a great extent in time space,
so that the terms of present and future
and past have no meaning, the terms of present
and future and past have no meaning.
Yeah. This will, if, if made proper use of
by the MINDBODY spirit complex enable this entity to
more move, um, enable this entity to, to more fully
into the all compassionate love
to enter more fully into the all compassionate love of each
and every circumstance,
including those circumstances against which an entity
may have a strong distortion towards
what you may call unhappiness.
So enter more fully into all compassionate love.
So is this, I, I guess maybe I'm taking
a little bit outta context then.
Is this saying then in space time,
or this is in time space
that you're being able to give this opportunity?
I think timespace because of the previous sentence,
it says that's where the property of the mind is placed.
But
Then again, it's a communication
between the conscious and the unconscious.
So it's, it's pulling information
into the conscious mind so that you can deal with it in,
in your waking life too.
So in that sense, it'd be both.
You're experiencing that in time space
through the dream there, but then you look at it in space
time after analyze like the dream that way
and look at what it could be teaching you
the compassionate love.
Yeah. Yeah.
There's many other examples in my life where I got
to see into the future a bit and,
and alleviate some unhappiness and turn
and turn something that should have been unhappiness into
pure joy 'cause of having that precognitive awareness.
Wow, that's exactly what I was asking about Mike.
Yeah. Yeah. So you've had that kind of experience.
Yeah. The more you write down your dreams,
the more you can have that Definitely.
As soon as I start having
'em, I'll start writing 'em down.
Yeah. I'm, I, I, I'm tempted to go into stories.
I'm sure other people here have stories too in the chat.
Um, I will,
may maybe we'll leave that for a different discussion.
Sure. That'd be a different discussion.
Yeah. You know, we could have a, uh, a call someday on, on
just an experiential discussion, literally
of just diving into Yeah.
Personal experiences. It'd be a little bit indulgent,
but maybe interesting too.
Yeah. And tr is gonna write a book about it.
Dreams in particular are just so fascinating.
I think everyone has had those crazy mystical experiences
or anything in, in the dream world.
And then it's a matter of how you incorporate
that into your life or what you interpret the meaning to be.
So yeah, that could be a fun conversation.
Well, I've, I've been lucky enough
to have some mystical experiences outside
of the dream world, fortunately.
So I've got, uh, maybe a little bit to offer there.
But, um, yeah, I, that's again, Ty, uh,
for a whole nother probably conversation about indigo ray,
activation, dreaming, um, you know,
hallucinogenics, things like that.
I might as well jump ahead to this other, uh,
other q and A here.
Um, so the other function of dreaming, which is of aid,
I think this is a separate, this is a separate answer.
Um, so,
so the other function of dreaming, which is of aid, is
that which type of dream is that type of dream,
which is visionary, and which prophets
and mystics have experienced from days of old,
their visions come through the roots of mind
and speak to a hungry world.
Thus, the dream is of service without being
of a personally polarizing nature.
However, in that the mystic
or prophet who desires to serve
such service will increase the entity's polarity.
So this is a little bit mysterious here,
what they're saying, but, um,
just visionary dreams are one possibility.
Yeah. So that would sort of ask
or answer that previous question a little bit,
and that you could get a vision that say, had global impact.
And while the vision itself may not have a polarizing
impact, which is why this was a,
a follow on question about those, uh, dreams
that are not necessarily polarizing, um,
they're saying Sure, that may not have a,
a personally polarizing impact on the dreamer,
but once the dreamer decides that they may want to deliver
that message to the world in service, then
that could increase their polarity.
Yeah. Rah also does talk about, I,
I can't remember if it's directly to rah
or if it's the confederation,
but they visit people in dreams quite a bit more frequently
now, it seems, uh, whether it's channeling,
but dreaming is one of the main, uh, modems it seems like,
that they use at least currently.
So it could be messages like that
that you then are given the opportunity to,
to be of service by using.
Yeah, if it's coming to me with that darn, you know,
memory eraser for men in black, then
I could tell you all about it.
When you contact the entities in their dreams, um,
do they have to have
to be first seeking in the direction of the law of one?
Uh, this is correct. For example, entities of the nation
of Egypt, where in a state of pantheism,
as you may call this distortion, um, towards
separate worship of various portions of the creator,
they were able to contact one whose
orientation was towards the one.
Um, I guess they must've been
talking about that earlier here. Um, I think it
Was in 14 also. I
was looking at it earlier. Yeah. But
I can't remember the exact
Yeah, we, okay.
In most cases, the channels in Egypt were inspired by dreams
and visions without being aware consciously
of our identity or existence.
Um, I feel like there,
there might've been something else too later on, um,
about the contact and dreams.
Um, but I guess that's maybe take me too long to find here.
Um, so I'll finish up the other
discussion about dreams here, which is,
this is possibly the most useful thing unrelated
to the discussion of Timespace,
but this is kind of related to contact too,
because of the ni nature of guidance.
Um, so as a MINDBODY spirit complex consciously chooses the
path of the ept with each energy center balance
to a minimal degree begins
to open the indigo ray ray center.
And the so-called dreaming becomes the most
efficient tool for polarization.
Or if, if it is known by the ept,
that work may be done in consciousness while the so-called
conscious mind rests.
This adept may call upon those which guide it,
those presences which surround it,
and most of all, the magical personality,
which is the higher self
and space time analog
as it moves into the sleeping mode of consciousness.
So this is like praying before you go to bed.
That's the way I see it. And you can
be praying to your higher self.
You can be prying, praying to your guides.
Um, well, they say most
of all the magical personality, which is a higher self.
Um, so I guess that's the, that's the center
of it is calling upon your higher nature.
Um, and with these affirmations attended to the entity
of the activity of dreaming reaches the, that potential
of learned teaching, which is most helpful
to increasing the distortions
of the adapted towards its chosen polarity.
So they're calling this affirmations, um,
this calling upon calling upon these guides for the purpose
of increasing towards your chosen polarity,
which would be increasing your, your love,
increasing your opportunities to find love
to towards yourself or others,
depending upon your polarity, I guess.
So you would see this then as let's say your higher self,
in this case, giving you examples of
how you can be a better service to others
or a better express love through this dream state
or analyze, I guess, experiences better to, uh,
be able to, to respond differently in
future catalyst situations.
Yeah, maybe both of those. Yeah.
Huh. Yeah. I wonder how dreams are, are different in
this capacity, um, in contrast to how it, um, described
when the lower energy centers are blocked.
I wonder if this is like the dream yoga,
they talk about like dream yoga
and being more conscious in your dream.
So you have a, like Mike was saying, you put
that affirmation in before, so you are aware.
It's kind of like the um, uh, like lucid dreaming state
where you can work with it
and consciously choose at that point.
So it's not so much you're getting this lesson to analyze
as you wake, but it's more of in the moment.
Yeah. I'm trying to not sort of fall into a trap almost
of going like, oh, look,
then we could consciously be working in time space,
but they're also saying that there's the sleeping mode
of consciousness happening right there.
So whether it's what we would typically refer to
as the conscious mind that's present and having this dream
or, or determining it,
or if it's literally the higher self that's coming in and,
and having the dream
and, you know, consciousness is asleep.
There's probably a large spectrum.
I think there's probably a spectrum of, uh, what we're able
to achieve by how much we can contact our higher self.
Yep. I would, I would go with that.
Were you gonna add something, Nathan?
Oh, I was just gonna say, that's a good point.
Andrew kind of makes me wonder a little bit more on, on
that, but it's obviously seems
to be a little more complex than
Yeah, yeah.
'cause it's sometimes I'm thinking that it's, you know,
one versus the other as opposed to wherever my point
of awareness might be centered within
that whole totality, I suppose.
So it's not the higher self coming in at the cost
of lower self going to sleep,
but rather just the, the function
of awareness drifting from the lower state
of consciousness into the higher one.
So this is a great, uh,
another follow up question that Don had.
Um, so I guess this was
a follow-up, uh, about why,
why there is small portions of REM sleep occurring
during dreaming, and why are there gaps in, in
between these periods of REM sleep
and why, why the dreaming process works?
Like that was the question. And Ross said the portions
of the dreaming process, which are helpful for polarization
and also for the vision of the mystic
take place in time space, and
consequently use the bridge from metaphysical to physical
for what seems to be a brief period of your space time.
The time space equivalent is far greater.
The bridge remains however,
and introduces each distortion of mind, body,
and spirit as it has received the distortions
of energy influxes.
So that healing may take place.
I had to look that up by the way.
It introduces, it means to speak badly of
or something like that.
Well, that's what it confused me. I looked it up also.
I was hoping Mike had, uh, already defined it
as well too here, but it was a little misleading.
Yeah, Well, I i, it to me, it's, it's the, the
duction that's happening here, I just made that up, is, is
of the distortions.
So it's the, the distortions that are needing to be healed
that are quote unquote being spoken badly of,
but it would be more like we're being told the truth about
them and allowed to see them well,
which just allows them to heal
Here it says mid 16th century meant in the sense transport
transmit from Latin traer, lead in front of others
exposed to ridicule.
Um, so, so I don't understand why those two are related.
Um, but maybe, maybe there's some reason that they,
they brought in a word that both means transport
and expose at the same time,
But it kind of, it means the same thing.
I think Andrew is what you're saying though, too.
It's basically making that aware, you're making you aware
of those distortions that you're,
that you're receiving and that you have
Yeah. It's the distortions
that are being introduced, um,
which I think just is meaning that they're being shown for
what they are, which yeah.
Would allow the healing to take place.
Yeah. The bridge remains
and introduces each distortion of mind, body,
and spirit as it has received the distortions
of energy influxes.
So that healing may take place like shining a,
a flashlight on every single thing.
Um,
How do you think that works there?
I guess, because the way I'm reading it, it's saying
that you, it's space time,
so you're sleeping your body's asleep safe for an hour time,
space that could be, let's say 10 hours of time at
that point, but then once you return,
it says the bridge remains.
So is it that remembering of the experience
that the bridge is still connected to, like with those
distortions being brought up?
Or what would you consider that bridge to be then?
That makes sense to me that, I mean, certainly when,
when I awake from a dream
and I can remember it, it feels like there are elements
of the other side that I'm connected to
and that I can go to in some way.
Yeah, that makes sense to me.
That's kind of what I was relating to as well.
I just wasn't sure if you guys
interpreted that same way. So this
Almost like healing happening in
between dreaming, is that what we're saying? Yeah,
Yeah. Okay.
Lemme me finish this.
Okay, Go ahead. It says,
this healing process does not occur with the incidence
of rapid eye movement, but rather occurs largely in the
space time portion of the mind, body,
spirit complex using the bridge to timespace for the process
of healing to be enabled.
Uh, but we did say that dreaming ha
coincides with rapid eye movement,
Right? Yeah.
Okay. I guess that's just known scientifically.
I don't know if they said that
Right. But this would
sort of make sense.
He is trying to understand the pattern of, of sleeping
and dreaming, and what it sounds like raw is saying is
that there's always something happening.
Either you're healing or you're actively dreaming.
Yeah. I guess it makes sense that the REM is,
is the bridge, and then after the bridge is closed,
now you can deal with that for a little bit
before jumping back in like the,
like the acid trip, I'm ready to go in again.
I was thinking that it was meaning that the,
the bridge remains open even after, right.
Rapid eye movement is closed so that dreaming is active,
dreaming is during round, right.
And then the bridge is still there doing its healing even if
you're not actively dreaming.
That makes the most sense to me. Yeah.
Um, yeah, the bridge is the processing,
Trish says, yeah, I think so.
Or the, or the use, use of the bridge is like the processing
that happens in between the, the,
It's almost like the involuntary
or the, the parasympathetic metaphysical healing complex
that is just doing its thing because that's what happens.
I mean, just like the body is right, the, the body itself.
And, and we're gonna get to another passage here, I think,
um, that totally reinforce that something for me
that's really present that when, when Rob refers
to the body, um, it's almost never, um,
referring strictly to the physical body.
And, um, I'm starting to see those as much more of a,
of a complex and a, a continuum,
I guess the energetic bodies into the physical body,
but we, we scientifically understand
that the physical body goes into its repair process.
But it seems to me that this is actually just happening
across the whole body complex at that time.
If you can clarify yourself when we get there.
Um, I'm not sure what exactly what you're asking there.
Yeah, I forgot I was looking at it at the time.
Um, so, um,
I was gonna jump over here from dreams to death
because these are the two areas where they seem
to talk about timespace the most.
And to some degree, you know, they talked about timespace
with a general definition that this is just, um,
that when we're in space time, you know, we we're seeing,
um, the inverse of what we would see in Timespace, where we,
instead of seeing all the spaces
around us here in space time in Timespace,
we see all the times around us, all the different events
that that could be represented
by forms in the timespace dimensions.
And so the relationship between things happening in space
and things happening in time is always, uh, two aspects
of our nature, which is, which are always unfolding,
and which become more apparent in these dreaming states
and become more apparent in the, um, in
between lifetime state, um, when we get to look,
look across the veil and have the life review.
Um, so this question was, as an entity goes
through the death process and third density
and finds itself in timespace,
it finds itself in a different set of circumstances.
Would you please describe the properties
or circumstances of Timespace
and then the process of healing
or incarnate experiences that some entities encounter
and raw says,
although this query is difficult to answer adequately due
to the limitations of your spacetime words,
your sound vibration complexes,
we shall respond to the best of our ability.
The hallmark of spacetime is the inequity between time
and space, space in your space time.
The spatial orientation of material
causes a tangible framework
for illusion and time space.
The inequity is upon the shoulders of
that property known to us time.
This property renders entities and experiences intangible
and a relative sense
in your framework.
Each particle or core vibration moves at a velocity which
approaches what you call the speed of light
from the direction of the superluminal velocities,
which means faster than the speed of light.
And this is pretty trippy to think, I mean,
this is like physics that people like David will have tried
to explain that.
It would seem as though on the other side, all the particles
of reality are now operating with different loss
because they're moving faster than the speed of light.
Whereas on this side of things,
the particles are moving slower than the speed of light.
And, and therefore there's, there's the speed
of light is kind of like this.
Um, you know, the, the linkage, uh, between, between our,
our, our two realities
or two ways of experiencing light, I guess
one being unbounded in time
and one being un unbounded in space.
Um, which, which it's fascinating that there's a physics
to all this metaphysical stuff in, in that sense.
Um, but that's kind of a, a side note to this.
Um, but that's their, that's
how they started explaining this answer about
death is kind of profound.
Would you think that that's saying that core vibrations
in time space move at a
superluminal velocity?
Yeah, that seems what they're saying.
Okay. So, so another way that we might look at this is say
that the speed of light represents the, the
boundary, the boundary between,
between the space time and timespace.
Yeah. It seems that like that's what they're suggesting,
Which is related to the veil.
I know we were talking about unconscious earlier
and being in timespace, but,
and I, I don't wanna draw, you know, two stark
or parallels where they're, where they don't belong.
But I would say that the veil seems to ride a lot along
that same line.
Well, it could be that the veil has more to do
with our genetics because, you know,
we can always be perceiving into time space when we have a
pineal gland, which is capable of doing so. Um, true.
So piercing the veil. Yeah. Yeah.
Hmm. Um,
And, uh, you know, I've heard David Wilcock talk about
how even the pine was apparently reverse engineered
in a sense by groups that are trying
to look into the future, where they're using electromagnetic
fields to shield light shield influences
from the water, which is potentially in our, the water
of our pine, of our pineal gland.
And it's like you can have the rods
and cones inside the pineal gland looking in at this water,
which becomes kind of the hyperdimensional linkage when, um,
when it's just properly shielded in.
Or again, i, I, I guess with the fields of
electromagnetic energies, which may,
may be the metaphysical energies themselves as well,
those fields can then tweak and tune the perception.
And that goes across the, the barrier. I think,
Well, for one, I'd like to know where I can sign up.
Uh, but, uh, two, I've been thinking about, um,
electromagnetics and fields a lot lately
and bridging the same thing across, um,
the physical and metaphysical.
So I like that you're drawing some of that in as well.
Yeah. In, in, in theory, this is how UFOs work
to some degree too, when they pop in, in
and out of our reality, um,
maybe they're jumping away from space time into time space.
That's that's theory.
Yeah. But it makes sense. It can be many ways
that they pop out of our reality too.
Um, so thus though,
as though we can understand that part, thus,
thus the timespace or metaphysical experience is
that which is finely tuned.
And although an analog of space time
lacking in its tangible characteristics
in these metaphysical planes, there is a great deal of
what you would you call time, which is used to review
and re-review the biases
and learn teachings of a prior, as you would call it,
space time incarnation.
So you're free to look again
and again, like, like looking at the, the, the,
the replay reel of your life over and over
and over until you're satisfied that you're,
you're done with that kind of healing.
It kind of seems like dipping, you know,
they talk about dipping into the sea,
but going back into the ocean and,
and knowing the self as sort of all waves at once
and being able to see them all, you know, from
that vantage point as opposed to in space time where you're,
you're experiencing one wave after another
after another in a more linear sense.
Yeah. Um, is this the one
where they talked about the grand overview?
Yeah, it was a different one here.
They said, um, the advantage of timespace is that
of the fluidity of the grand overview, the advantage
of space time is that working in darkness
with a tiny candle, one may correct imbalances.
I thought this was kind of interesting
because it reminded me
of a quote I had been looking at earlier for, um,
I think it was 26 30 there, where they were saying in, uh,
in timespace you can accept
and forgive some of these experiences,
but it's only in space time you can actually
achieve restitution.
So it may be more related to karma and actions,
but it can't be achieved in timespace.
So that's why you incarnate as well, to
set up different experiences for you to then, uh, be able
to, I guess, achieve
or to, to heal some of those properties.
Yeah. Um, is that, in this
One, it was the paragraph
above the one you were on, I think, Mike. Yeah.
The process in space time of the forgiveness
and acceptance is much like that in time space,
and that the qualities of the process are analogous.
However, while in space time, it is not possible
to determine the course of events beyond the incarnation,
but only to correct present imbalances
and timespace upon the other hand, it is not possible
to correct any unbalanced actions,
but rather to perceive the imbalances
and thusly forgive the self for that, which is,
Yeah. So it's saying basically
the same thing.
It just was said a little differently in the other quote,
but it's Yeah, it means the exact same looks like, yeah,
Yeah.
The decisions then are made
to set up the possibility probabilities
of correcting these imbalances in
what you call future space time experiences,
which, so I guess the, the forgiveness is not
About death.
Oh, go ahead. Sorry. That's it.
I was just gonna say to talk about that in, in death,
specifically with suicide, I thought that it was great
that it says it's not just possible or probable,
but that you're gonna make a new commitment to space time.
Yeah. Yeah.
And this is so fascinating to me that the, um,
the forgiveness itself is not the entirety of the work
that we need to do because we have energies which are
hurdling us through the universe to do different things and,
and grow in light in many different ways,
grow in interacting with others.
So many different things. And these are the energies
that are, we're still need to
set up future experiences in order to balance,
and we can't just have 'em automatically balanced by
taking a pause and forgiving ourselves for everything.
We can't. You need To be tested with it actually,
to prove that you've actually truly forgiven
or accept the experience.
I see what you're saying there.
Yeah. Um, so what's the purpose
of forgiveness in time space?
If you can't actually correct anything,
It could be because we're so jumbled, you know,
it's like we're we, we're, we're not clear on
what we're doing or who we are,
and we can't really be of service
to others when we're a bunch of unresolved, you know,
blockages and lack of forgiveness for ourself.
I see. We have to forgive ourself in order
to be productive about probably constructing
what the next thing is gonna be.
If, if we're not forgiving ourselves,
then we might be lending ourselves up
for some more challenging, uh, lessons.
Yeah. I wonder if we would live longer, if we were able
to be completely forgiving of ourselves
all, all day, every day.
Like, I'm fully satisfied today.
I might as well go on for tomorrow.
I'm gonna go out on a limb mike and go with Yes.
It's like an action of the will as well.
Then you have the, the will to live
and the will to continue the experience too.
Well, and not the need to learn through things like aging,
you know, which is just a, an affect
of our belief in the construct of time.
And, and I think that, I mean, ultimately they say
that aging is related to the electromagnetic system
that the whole planet is dealing with.
And, you know, the fact that we've reduced our, the length
of time we're living collectively from 900 years down
to 90 years, that drop was a collective thing that related
to the energy imbalances of the whole planetary, you know,
collective unconscious mind.
So I think that, you know, healing yourself on
that deep level, which apparently some saints in India have
done, you know, there's many claims of people
who live many hundreds of years.
Um, I, I guess that's a very hard process to get to
that deepest aspect of yourself
where you almost have a shield from the, the distortions
of the collective consciousness, which are so, so easy
to break into the everyone else's influence
and where them, where, where us all down.
I think about that all the time.
The juxtaposition between the collective conscious
and the personal conscious
and how we are manifesting, obviously our own realities.
And it's like we accept both of these things is true, which,
you know, I think that they are true.
And yet the understanding of which of these things has a,
a more powerful impact.
Which of these things is surmountable, you know, can,
can the individual be so certain of something
that it can overcome the collective
consciousness and belief in something?
And is that, is that the only, the only thing that needs
to be done in order for somebody to, uh, express miracles
or, you know, what have you in physical reality
that might not otherwise be accepted?
I think you might as well call it, contacted
with intelligent infinity and say,
yes, that's all that needs to be done.
Okay. Um, good.
So the, the, the collective consciousness is an influence
and certainly one into which we are all plugged.
Um, but this is a matter of, of piercing even that, so the,
the gateway to intelligent infinity is gonna go upward
through individual consciousness all the way
through collective consciousness and through, um, above.
Yeah, it seems to relate to the unconscious mind, the,
the roots of the tree of mind.
As, as Ross says on there,
we have the different levels of that unconscious.
So the personal, the racial, the planetary,
so planetary collective conscious of here,
but below there is archetypal and then cosmic mind,
and this of course is then the gateway
to intelligent infinity.
So it's, you can traverse all of those,
but there's different levels to it, I guess kinda, I think
what you're alluding to there, Andrew,
but yeah, with the possibility
of contacting intelligent infinity at the end.
That makes sense. Hmm. Nice.
So going back to discussion with death, um,
so we're talking about the review process
and then they, they said there were extreme fluidity
of these regions of time.
Space makes it possible for much to be penetrated,
which must needs be absorbed
before the process of healing
of an entity may be accomplished.
Each entity is located in a somewhat immobile state, much
as you are located in space time,
in a somewhat immobile state in time,
in this immobile space, the entity has been placed
by the form maker and higher self, so
that it may be in the proper configuration
for learn teaching that which it has received in the
space time incarnation.
And I don't know if that's like a special shell
or bubble that they've given you when they talk about
The indigo ray body, right?
Yeah, yeah. The form make's indigo.
Um, and we, I discussed that in a different episode
of this discussion.
I don't, I feel like that's gonna have to be an a,
a future discussion too, because all the ways they discussed
four baker and the indigo are still so,
um, interesting and profound.
Um, and there are some points
where they're discussing the poss the potentials
of the indigo ray activation, where they say,
we can't even discuss this because of the law of confusion,
because of how, you know, how profound I assume it is
that what's possible with, um, I mean,
even if you just think about that,
that we are in contact at all times with an aspect
of ourself, which is called the form maker.
So we are outside of form, we are formless,
and we are a part of us is a form maker,
and we're, we're choosing along with our form maker,
the reality that we're taking on.
Hmm. That makes sense that
that would be obviously indigo ray, since that's the gateway
to intelligent infinity.
And if you were gonna sort of, um, override, um,
any other influence of consciousness on the making of form,
uh, that's where you would do it.
Yeah. So depending on this
timespace locus, there will be certain helpers which
assist in the healing process.
The process involves seeing in full the experience,
seeing it against the backdrop
of the mind body spare complex total experience,
forgiving the self for all missteps as regards
the missed guideposts during the incarnation.
And finally, the careful assessment of the next necessities
for learning this is done, is done entirely
by the higher self until an entity has become conscious in
space time of the process
and means of spiritual evolution,
at which time the entity will consciously take
part in all decisions.
Um, for clarity on the last sentence, um,
when it says, um, at which time would
that still be referring to this life between lives, meaning
that if an entity achieves, um, consciousness
during a regular space time incarnation,
that the death following that particular incarnation,
then they would have a more conscious, um,
influence over this?
I think so. Okay.
Not, not to confuse this with, um, somebody that,
that gets harvested to fourth density in the midst
of an incarnation that would then, you know, be more
consciously deciding.
I don't know if that makes sense.
'cause they've talked about, you know, if you get harvested
to fourth density, you could literally just, you know,
float away the most don't,
but that's not what we're talking about.
This is specifically within the context
of the life between lives.
Yeah. This is the normal process.
And I think they at one point said that, um,
did they give a percentage that like maybe more than half
of us are now in this state of, uh, helping
to choose our next incarnation?
Are the details of that?
I thought they did put a number to,
because there's a certain level
of development in third density
before it would be the, I think what they call it,
the automatic reincarnation
before you have the ability
to choose your incarnation experience.
But I thought they did put a personage
or a quantity to it. Yeah,
50% seems like a high number.
And yet at the same time, given
what Ross says about the graduation from third
to fourth density and how poorly we've performed,
and my guess is that by this late, late, late stage,
that this should be much more like, you know, 99% is
consciously making choices between incarnations.
Yeah. You'd think, except it seems like we're on a rather
confused planet or going through a rather confused third
density experience here.
And yeah, the sinkhole in differences, Ross says like,
quite a few are kind of caught up in this, so
Exactly which 50%, like on the one hand I'm like, Hey,
go, go 50%.
And then on the other it's like, yeah,
but I guess that's quite a bit shorter
from where we should be.
And Trish, to your point, uh,
rod does discuss seniority about vibration as it pertains
to incarnating into a later stage
density. Um, yeah. As
What the ability, the people
who need this experience the most
or could benefit greatly from this
experience are given that chance.
But I guess I don't know if that necessarily means
that you would choose your incarnation, um,
circumstances at that point as well,
but it seems like it would if you're trying
to move on to fourth density. Let me,
Yeah. I think pre-incarnate
choose these circumstances.
I need to, to progress.
Exactly. I think by the time you show up on, on the list
of, of seniority, you've, you know, crossed that threshold
and you're, you know, really you're an adept, you know, in
and outside of an incarnation.
Yeah, that makes sense. Even wanderers.
Hmm, exactly. Which is sort
of a metaphysically or, or across the, the, the great wheel.
Um, I would say that that's a level above the aept, right?
I mean, an aept you would say is sort
of in the context within an incarnation, whereas a wanderer,
we think of sort of an aept, um, you know,
across incarnations.
Yeah. Coming from a higher density of experience
where you adapt at least in third density is
what working in the fifth
and sixth ray energy centers here, but
Exactly.
I wonder how the, the archetype of the martyr,
um, comes in there.
Um, and you know, I know Don asks Rob quite a bit about
wanders and, and coming in,
but, um, you know, it's a, it's a challenging experience
and I just wonder if that archetype plays a role
pre-incarnate where we say, Hey,
this is gonna be a challenging
experience where we're like, I can do it.
You know, look how much I've done
already, or, you know, whatever.
And, um, hmm.
I was trying to find a different quote where I thought
that they talked about the percentages,
but, um, when the entity becomes aware
and its MINDBODY spirit complex totality of the mechanism
for spiritual evolution, it itself will arrange
and place those lessons and entities necessary
for maximum growth and expression
of polarity in the incarnate experience
before the forgetting process occurs.
The only disadvantage of this total free will
of those senior entities choosing the manner
of incarnation experiences is that some entities attempt
to learn so much during one incarnate experience,
that the intensity of catalyst dis ranges the polarized
entity and the experience thus is not
maximally useful as intended.
You bite off more than you can chew.
Yeah. Love that.
That's optimism though, right?
Yeah. So I mean, that's even, you know, we,
we encounter people like that, right?
I'm not saying it's my place to know which ones are which,
but gosh, you know, we, we must all encounter people like
that all the time that are, that are, you know, just have a,
a really fraught experience.
And, um, you know, I remind myself all the time
that they signed up for it.
Yeah. In fact, you know, those that have what
to us would seemingly be, you know, perhaps the most,
the most challenging, um, you know, I would,
I would almost have to put them more into this category
because, you know, surely it would be very hard
for a less conscious entity to, to, um,
choose that and, and actually be able to grow through it.
Or it'd be much more difficult, I guess, for an unconscious,
um, being to choose, you know, the most challenging type
of incarnation because it's very hard to learn
through if you're not conscious.
I mean, that seems kind of strange.
I don't know if that's a safe inference to make,
but, um, I guess you could have it karmically too.
I guess you could have it sort of
pre-chosen if you're just still bouncing back
and forth between unconscious extremes
and different incarnations.
I, I'm not an expert on that.
I'm not sure either way, but all I know is it's hard
to talk to people about that too.
Aren't, uh, into any of this sort of
spiritual metaphysical principles telling you
that you chose this as kind of a,
or at least potentially chose.
This is very difficult, uh, topic to broach.
Yeah. It's, and then it's the most empowering thing
anyone can possibly accept about
their own experience as well.
Yeah. Right. Taking responsibility
is another, uh, good quote from the material.
If an entity can, once an entity chooses
to take responsibility, you can empower your progress like
an order of magnitude or the law of squares
or law of doubling kind
of effect on your reality when you take responsibility
Isn it of each moment basically too.
So relating to time space,
like we were talking about and space time.
So all past
and future, uh, responsibility, I guess moments.
Yeah. There was something about the moments in there.
Um, so the quote exactly was, um,
well, I'll read this whole thing.
The law of one has as one of its primal distortions,
the free will distortion.
Thus each entity is free to accept, reject,
or ignore the mind-body, spirit complexes about it,
and ignore the creation itself.
There are many among your social memory, complex distortion,
who at this time space engage daily,
as you would put it in the working upon the law of one
and one of its primal distortions.
That is the ways of love.
However, if the same entity
being biased from the depths of its mind, body,
spirit complex towards love light, were then
to accept responsibility for each moment of the time space,
accumulation of present moments available to it.
Such an entity can empower its progress in much
the same way we described.
Its empower as the empowering of the call
of your social memory complex distortion
of the confederation, meaning the beings that we're calling
to in the confederation for assistance is benefited
by more people calling together.
'cause it's an exponential effect.
But this quote, this, this, this is so confusing
and it's great, it comes up on when we're trying
to study time space here.
So accepting responsibility for each moment
of the time space, accumulation
of present moments available to it.
So, so the timespace accumulation here, timespace is the,
is the place where you can see all of your past times
of your, of your existence, all your future too.
But here we're talking about the accumulation
of present moments available to you, which is usually
what I think you can remember.
Um, I think that's
what we're talking about here. Yeah. Um, that's
The way I see it there too.
So if we're accepting responsibility for everything
that we've learned to this point, that's, I think that's,
that's stepping forward into a much
greater rate of evolution too.
Yeah. Larger context.
And I, I still always tie things back to identity too,
but they're kind of one and the same.
You either see yourself as victim
of current incarnate circumstance,
or you see yourself as master of intra incarnate
incarnate experience.
Mm-Hmm. Alright.
We can jump ahead to, uh,
some other discussions on death here.
Um, so this question was about, upon
physical death from this particular density,
we lose the chemical body immediately
after the loss of this chemical body.
Do we maintain a different type of body?
Is there still a mind, body, spirit complex at that point?
And where I said this is correct, the mind, body,
spirit complex is quite intact.
The physical body complex you now associate
with the term body being
but manifestation of a more dense and intelligently informed
and powerful body complex.
So what heck
This earlier when I was talking about the body,
this was the thing that I was, I was talking about.
So when we go to sleep,
we typically think physiologically the body is
kind of repairing itself.
And all I'm saying is I'm extending that metaphysically
and saying the body complex is
actually the energy bodies as well.
And I think those are healing themselves via
that bridge we talked about earlier.
That that just remains open to just, you know, do its,
its regular cleanup processes,
just like the physical body does.
Well, Nathan, how, how do you interpret this phrase, this
more dense, intelligently informed
and powerful body complex? Have you thought about that one?
Yeah, I, you know, I, I gotta say, I don't know for sure,
but this one kind of seemed to relate to that, um,
form maker body or the indigo ray.
So a more dense collection of light, basically
that's then making some
of these bigger decisions like
the higher self at that point.
But the powerful is the,
is the weird word, I guess for me in there.
Mm-Hmm.
So I wonder, I I also wonder if this relates to, you know,
the, the, the, the entirety of, of who
and what we are, the totality.
Yeah. Um, yeah,
makers probably like the step up. Yeah, awesome.
Step up from the, from the higher self,
the Mindbody spirit complex totality
versus higher self version.
Well, maybe I should keep reading, I guess.
Um, but yeah, I, I feel like that's something I didn't,
I don't, I have not had a clear thought on that.
I, I wish it was as simple as saying, this is the etheric,
or, um,
You don't think that to me seems
completely implicit that that's
The etheric body.
A hundred percent. Those are the energetic bodies.
Again, that's a continuum.
So I mean, you know, it calls it a, a complex,
but the difference between the, the skin cells on your skin
and the etheric and emotional and,
and other bodies that are manifesting the physical body are,
are connected.
There's no disconnect between them.
As a matter of fact, they are one whole body.
So that's why they differentiate here between the chemical,
you know, or quote unquote physical body from really
what the rest of the body is.
Because at a, at a metaphysical point, they invest
so little in physical reality, um,
and see it as sort of an illusory reflection of,
of metaphysical reality that, you know, for our perspective,
we're always talking about the body and the physical body,
and for them it's, it's, um, a tail end,
but it's not as powerful.
It's not as intelligently informed as the whole rest
of the body system that actually makes it manifest.
Yeah, I guess that's,
and that what you're describing I think can be, well,
did they say the etheric is kind of coming from the,
the indigo center?
I feel like I could look that up quickly. Actually.
That would be good to know
because the etheric body on the tree, I normally associate
with yaso, which is the second level of, oh, there it is.
Yeah. The indigo ray body, which we choose
to call the etheric body, is, as we have said,
the gateway body in this body form is sub in this body,
form is substance.
And you may only see this body as that of light,
as it may mold itself as it desires.
Sounds pretty powerful. Did you
Talk about other bodies in the same context?
Yeah. Oh, there we go.
Yeah. The green ray body is
what they call the astral body.
Uh, what you see in seance when ectoplasm is furnished,
this is a lighter body, uh, packed more densely with life.
You may call this astral body
following some other teachings.
Others have called this same body, the etheric body.
However, this is not correct in the sense
that the etheric body is that body of gateway
where an intelligent energy is able
to mold the mind, body, spirit complex.
While I see this as the body complex
where you're looking at all the, the, the energetic centers
that associate themselves to a body
Yeah. Is
those rings
or concentric, you know, spheres, um, of our,
of our whole body complex.
Yeah. It's like levels
Or densities of experience,
but more specific to the body that makes up the body complex
As a whole. Yeah.
And we know that red and orange
and yellow are the, the components
of the physical body itself.
And then there are green, blue indigo
and violet bodies beyond that, that are
the rest of the body complex.
That might be what raw is describing
as more powerful and more dense.
Yeah. And I suppose they are unmanifest when we're
in the third density illusion.
Well, or are they manifesting
as the third density illusion?
The physical body, third density body is a manifestation
of the energetic bodies.
We'll go back to this here. They say the yellow ray body
is your physical vehicle as you know it, you know
of it at this time in, in which you experience catalyst.
This body has the mind, body, spirit characteristics
and is equal to the physical illusion as you have called it.
So I guess they're trying to distinguish, I think
between the, the, the yellow rape physical body
and the, the etheric body here.
Yeah, Yeah.
But it's a, in, in, in totality, it's a,
it's a body complex
because in its whole, the body is this vehicle
for the recording and experience of, of catalyst,
and whether that's in the physical
or it's in the mind, you know, et cetera,
but the body as recording mechanism
as opposed to the spirit.
Yeah. So I think of the soul as part of the body
because it's there to collect karmic,
Um, wow. Yeah.
That's interesting. Yeah.
Yeah. To me that's, that's, yeah,
I've been seeing it that way for a while.
Correct. Or not, but it's, the soul is just as much part
of the body as the physical body is,
And you, you can see it leave I guess when
you, somebody goes to sleep and,
And this question that you have here answers this.
It's either this one, yeah, it's this one
or the one that you just pulled up that says,
sure the physical body dies.
But in fact the, it's not even just a,
a mind spirit complex, you are still actually a mind body,
spirit complex because you've actually only lost one aspect
of your body complex.
And yet still the soul body remains exactly as it is.
And that's why Ross says in this one
or the next one, that that's where you get the clarity
because you're no longer
identified through the physical body.
And, and now you're less attached to the illusion.
And so now you can, um, basically react
and respond to what's in the soul body, which is,
which are your karmic incursions and deaths and all that.
Yeah. Right.
I, I would like to jump through some more of these
before we're out of time here.
Um, so is there any loss to, to the mind or spirit
after this transition, which we called,
this was the very next question Don asked, is there any loss
to the mind or spirit after this transition,
which we call death or any impairment of, either
because of the loss of this chemical body that we now have?
And Ross says in your terms, there is a great loss
of mind complex when the physical chemical body dies due
to the fact that much of the activity of a mental nature
of which you're aware during this experience
of the space time continuum is as much of a surface illusion
as is the chemical body complex.
I think that's the ego. I'm just calling it out.
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah. And I know I, the ego with, with a big star
that says everyone defines it differently,
but to me that's the part that sort of detaches the part
that was most attached to space time.
Yeah. The surface illusion.
Yeah. Which is a really important way
to look at the body as well.
If you look at the physical body, which we mostly identify
as a hundred percent, it's,
it's more really just on the surface, literally
of this ever present moment popping in
and out of, of existence.
It's as surface as it could possibly get.
It has, it has virtually no depth actually, if you think of
physical reality, the, the uncertainty principle teaches us
that that, you know, matter doesn't actually exist the way
that we tend to think about it through our perception.
So anyway, I would just say that it's,
it's just very much at this event horizon of, of reality.
But all the causal energies
and the rest of the body that's actually manifesting it are,
uh, obviously existing outside of space and time
or outside of space time anyway.
Yeah, time, space,
Yeah. They might be,
it, it,
they're certainly in time space to some degree.
Whether they're entirely within time space or not. Not sure.
So continuing this in other terms, nothing would ever
of importance is lost the character,
or shall we say, pure distillation of emotions and biases
or distortions and wisdoms if, if you will, becoming obvious
for the first time, shall we say, after death.
Uh, these pure emotions and wisdoms
and bias distortions being for the most part, either ignored
or underestimated during physical life experience in terms
of the spiritual, this channel is then much opened due
to the lack of necessity
for the forgetting characteristic of third density.
It kind of seems to further emphasize
what you were saying, Andrew, there with it being the ego.
'cause it's nothing of importance really on there.
It's only important on, in the incarnation to work through,
but as your total beingness, it's not.
Yeah. Because then you're dealing
with the peer emotions and wisdom.
So, so imagine, you know, experiencing your energetic body
outside of space time in, in time space instead.
And so you're experiencing the totality of,
of all the experiences that you've, that you've accumulated,
you know, in one energetic body, in one experience
all at once because you're, you know,
now detached from, from space time.
And, um, whether or not that's entirely the higher self
or as, as we've been talking about today,
as you become more conscious in an incarnation, then you're,
you play a more conscious role in this, this period here.
But either way, you're gonna go back and,
and evaluate these, this accumulation of emotions.
And so rather than perhaps seeing,
and I, I'm not, I'm not asserting this,
but I'm not sure when we say we can see all across time,
do we really see all events as the events that they were,
or are we really actually now experiencing things at more
of an energetic, um, you know, what the,
the pure energy of them was.
And so we're, we're seeing just again, this,
this energetic body
and experiencing it in totality, which is the effect
of experiencing everything across time
because these are all of our experiences as recorded in
this one body as opposed
to like us literally looking at a big physical timeline,
you know, where I see all the events that happen to me
and I'm more identifying as a human being and separation
and isolation and, you know, all of that sounds very,
very ego-driven.
Yeah. Yeah.
I feel like there's a lot to meditate on here with this.
Um, what, what, what could these, um,
these pure distillations of emotions and biases
and distortions and wisdoms be that we overlook so often?
Yeah, because they're a little
bit less conscious, right?
Our emotional reactions are often not, um,
intentional at all, really.
They just arise.
Whereas when they come up as
reactions in our experience in space time,
instead in time space, we get to see the emotion itself
and, you know, as energy and,
and perhaps what maybe some of the limiting beliefs
or lack of forgiveness
or something that underpins them are, yeah,
It's so funny how, you know, we can have
so much attachment to certain events happening
and, oh, I didn't get that job.
I didn't get that, that success I had wanted.
And then we learned such a huge lesson in the process,
and it's like, you know, a higher s just celebrating like,
oh, we never have to deal with
that again with so much you've gained.
Right? It's, it's all excited doing back flips
on some of our worst days.
It's like, I'm crushing it.
Yeah. Um, what about this last phrase?
Can you unpack that?
So it's interesting. So the, the question was originally,
is there any loss to the mind or spirit
after this transition?
And so they address the mind here
and then they address the spirit at
that last little bit in terms of the spiritual, when we die,
this channel of the spiritual channel is much opened due
to the lack of necessity
for the forgetting characteristic of third density. Yeah.
Because the third density body is, is gone basically.
So there is no forgetting characteristic.
Yeah, that makes sense.
So I guess it's like the spirit
that's just super focused on the, the body
that's very small, that's chemical is now open to become
that part of the form maker again and see, or,
or maybe feel from the vantage point of our higher self
of all of our nature beyond all incarnations.
Yeah, I think that's exactly what it is.
I mean, the, our investment in third density is, you know,
why we're quote unquote trapped, you know,
as I say in the illusion.
So once we unplug from that,
then it just makes perfect sense.
And of course our spiritual channel's gonna be, um,
probably open to, you know, potentially the same extent
as we were as our awareness was dedicated
and invested into the illusion, you know,
that might have the opportunity to, to flip flop
and particularly if we happen
to make some progress in this incarnation,
I would say, I, I have wondered if maybe
that when we are wandering into a third density reality,
if maybe the spirit in
between lifetimes is still somewhat limited to
the third density time space dimensions
and is not jumping our, our nature
of our existence back up into the whatever native density
we're coming from because we chose to have this limited, um,
experience of the wandering.
Yeah. I, I could see that reflected in, um,
them talking in different
passages than what you pulled up today.
But something similar I think in that the, those who come
to assist you in the afterlife will depend somewhat on the
level of consciousness that you've sort of gotten to there.
And that does call out the contextual nature
that you are just bringing up to say that it, you know,
even in the life between lives, your, the presence
and awareness and your level
of consciousness is still gonna be somewhat relative,
I suppose, to what it was before an incarnation
and, you know, having a symbol
what it could in an incarnation,
but doesn't necessarily mean that you're instantly,
your very highest version of yourself, you know, right
after any incarnation.
Yeah. Also makes sense because I say,
and another one that we're gonna look at the nature of, of
how you die will also inform
or influence what that experience is gonna look like.
Which again, I think says that the continuum
of consciousness, um, that we punctuate so, um,
assertively with death, uh, I don't think is, you know,
when they say it's a transition, I think it's, you know,
it's, it's much more of a transition
position then, then we realize.
Yeah. But not always to a, to a great,
you know, huge extent.
I, I was debating if we should skip this since we're low
on time, the, uh, se uh, 69 session 69 here we have,
we had some quotes about, um, the, the,
the challenging situation that Carl Ruckert went into where
that she was almost lured by a negative being
during her trance state that was not protected.
She was trying to be lured out.
Um, and, you know, she would normally, um, sort
of be somewhat disconnected from her body during channelings
with raw, uh,
and this is a potentially dangerous state in certain rare
cases that they were trying to talk about.
And so maybe,
maybe I could just read this one here that you're talking about.
Um, the question was, do I understand that death, whether,
whether it's by natural means or accidental death
or suicide, all deaths of this type would create the same,
well, I guess that was number four.
Um, did they talk about suicide in there?
No. Okay. They were just talking about death, just here.
Okay. So the question is, do I understand
that death whether is by natural means or accidental death
or suicide, all deaths of this type would create the same
after death condition
where there's protection which would avail an entity
to its protection from friends.
Is this correct? And Ross says, we presume you mean
to inquire whether in the death experience, no matter
what the, cause the negative friends are not able
to remove an entity, which is the case.
Um, in very rare circumstances, this is correct.
Largely this is correct, largely
because the entity without the attachment
to the space time physical complex is far more aware
and without the gullibility, which is somewhat the hallmark
of those who love wholeheartedly.
So when you properly die, you're no longer attached to that,
that lower aspect of the, of the mind, I guess.
Yeah. That there's a lot to unpack there though, when you,
you know, the gull ability of wholehearted love,
um, I find that interesting.
That's interesting word choice.
Gullible is not typically connotated as all that positive
of an attribution.
Oh, it seems like manipulative almost even
where you can be manipulated at that point too.
Yeah. Which by the way,
ka ballistically makes perfect sense.
'cause has said, and Deborah, you know, exist
as polar opposite.
So one being unconditional love
and the other one just being kind of justice
or severity so that, you know, is supported there,
but just kind of interesting
to call it out without any context.
Yeah. Um,
and I think Carla Rucker has talked about this a lot,
that there's a certain gullibility
that benef benefits a channeler
because you're not trying to super hyperly the things
that you're channeling, you're just, you're just allowing it
to flow without, without, without putting up a,
a wall, um, yeah.
Without resistance.
Yeah. Um,
and when there's no walls that could be called
a dangerous state, I suppose.
You know, what's also interesting is just to point out
that raw is not actually answering the question here.
I know that the line of questioning had to do with people
who could take someone out of their, you know,
consciousness if they're in a,
a different state of consciousness.
But this question was actually really to say,
are your friends there no matter what, you know,
no matter how you die.
Um, and maybe, maybe that Don was asking be
because he's inferring
that are the are negative entity gonna be there regardless,
which is how Ross sort of interprets Yeah.
It has to do with negative friends,
but it's not actually what, what Don asked,
Um, let's let finish reading it here.
Yeah. Um, however,
the death if natural would undoubtedly
be the more harmonious.
Um, and I assume that within that word harmonious means
that there are guides as usual.
Um, the, the death by murder being confused
and the entity needing some time space in which
to get its bearings, so to speak,
and the death by suicide causing this necessity
for much healing work and shall we say, the making
of a dedication to third density for the renewed opportunity
of learning the lessons set by the higher self.
So they're distinguishing between the different types
of death here with the amount of healing that's needed,
but not necessarily by the
amount of guides that are present.
Sure. And I found, I found that whole statement there also
completely fascinating by the way,
because they're, they're sort of saying
that there is no way of checking out of,
of third density in, in a higher conscious way.
Like there's no way that you could arrive at that decision
to say, oh, I'm done here, for example.
Like, oh, you know, I've just,
I've learned everything there is to learn.
Like you could think that you're as enlightened as possible,
but then as soon as you do that thinking
that you're onto the next plane, um, no, the mere act
of taking yourself out of third density seems like in, um,
all cases means that you're gonna have to go back.
There was a fascinating, uh, story in, uh,
the book Miracle of Love by MDAs, where, uh,
there was an instance where somebody
had like some blood vessels burst, uh, and, uh,
and the, the guru confirmed
that this person had completed his, his work, uh, and that,
and that the death was actually coinciding
with his completion of dealing with all
of his karma and moving on.
So, wow, I don't, I don't know if that's 100% the case
that a suicide is, uh, something that's happening in
what they're talking about with suicide here.
Yeah, that's a, that's a really great point.
In fact, is there any death that is not ultimately suicide?
It's been, I mean, isn't that to put the cause
of our death outside of ourselves
or to agate responsibility for calling that lesson
or those circumstances forth or,
or having not even signed up for it?
Pre-incarnate like isn't like if somebody, if somebody dies
as a, as a child, for example, um, is born with,
with birth defects and,
and dies shortly afterwards, um, you know, at some level,
given that that was signed up for, um, sort of a,
a pre checking out
but not being made from within the illusion, obviously
that decision being made outside of the illusion.
Yeah. That's kind of fascinating.
Yeah. Mike kind of turned
that on its head from the way I was looking at it too,
is something traumatic requires that much more time.
So it's thinking back to like the, uh, mal deck situation
where they blew themselves up
and they were tangled in this not a fear from
that traumatic situation.
So it took much of that time, space teachings
to even break outta that to be able to reincarnate again.
But, um, yeah, Mike,
that story you shared seems kind of contradict that.
I guess there's possibilities, at least
I guess if you're, if you're,
if you've truly finished your, your, your learning,
if you're learning, learning, learning, learning, learning,
you got nothing more and you're done.
That makes sense. That is also what they talked about
with the activation of intelligent affinity being something
where it's not common for an entity to desire cessation
of the physical complex, but that is a possibility
that once you realize I no longer need this body, I'm done
with it, then you can just leave it.
And that is a thing that they,
that they described in the raw contact too,
But it may not be suicide.
Yeah. I mean, you not like if your third density body, um,
you know, discontinues to materialize, um,
it doesn't necessarily mean that it's, it's been killed
per se to be, you know, ended,
but more that it's learnings have been assimilated.
Yeah. I I like that. Death is such a gray area.
Yeah. Being killed.
Nathan, your reference
to Maldi I think is also very helpful because the micro
and the macro are, um, so often reflective
and so that could be seen as, as, um, a collective
suicide and I mean, ultimately kind of has to be
for a planet that blows itself up.
That was effectively what it did,
Right? Yeah, exactly.
I think what Mike kind
of pointed on there seems to make the most sense too.
It's depending on the progression,
I guess, of the entity there.
If they're ready to move on
or they've learned the lessons at that point,
that death can transition you into,
I guess I'd say a higher density.
Whereas in Mal deck,
they were still very clearly learning their third density
lessons when not happened, but yeah.
Yeah. Good point.
Alright, so I guess we could wrap it up for today
and just say that, uh, it'll remain a little bit mysterious
as to the nature of, um, the spirit and the,
and the light that we're working with
always in these lesser appreciated aspects of our being.
But we can continue to seek, seek the light
and I guess we can, we can stop it there.
Well, I sure do enjoy seeking the light with you guys.
Likewise.
Yeah, I agree.
It's massively discussions every single time.
All right. Take care. Thanks everyone for joining.
We can open it up now to chat a little bit
with the attendees.