WEBVTT
All right.
So welcome everybody.
This is LA one deep dives,
and we're gonna be discussing the
potentiator archetypes today.
These are the potentiator of mind, potentiator body,
potentiator spirit, uh, archetypes
of the major arcana of the tarot.
And we're gonna review this in the same way
that Ross suggested reviewing, uh, for one phase
of the study, which is to review all
of the potentiators side by side.
And I have those images ready.
And we, I think that these are the possibly the closest,
at least the highest detail versions
that are the closest to the originals.
And I'll share my screen pretty soon here.
Um, and do you guys have any thoughts on
what is a potentiator?
I mean, in which context? Even, right,
because they seem to behave very differently,
particularly when it comes to the spirit, I think.
But, um, and the body, even the body seems
to function normal working.
Um, I don't know, is possibility too broad?
I really like the potentiate of the mind,
you know, how that's described.
Um, seems a little bit more accessible, I suppose.
It seems to me unconscious
or, you know, what's possible in potentiation.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, it certainly has helped me over,
over the years to consider.
Potentiator is relatively close to the concept of potential,
and they certainly use the word potential all over the place
talking about the potentiators,
and that the unconscious mind is the potential of mind,
that the conscious mind is dipping into the, the,
the unlimited potential.
And it's bringing a potentiation, which is
to potentiate means to bring more potency.
So it seems like this root word potency
and potential are potential are roughly connected along
the potentiator concept.
Interesting. It's almost like everything
that is in potential is anyway,
but once it gets potentiated, it's just that much more,
I suppose, real subjectively.
Um, does that seem, with that analogy of dipping in, um,
how do you guys compare or contrast that to the concept of
going beyond some kind of veil?
Knowing again, that there might be multiple types of veils
that we're talking about, but would you guys consider
dipping into what the potentiator represents as, you know,
part of one of the veils that we're kind
of reaching past when we're doing this?
Yeah, absolutely. That's, that's definitely what,
what the big part of the discussion about the potential
of the mind was, was they said, this is, you know, a,
a product, or at least our appreciation of these
relationships is a product of the veiling.
And that the, the veiling between the conscious
and the unconscious mind is what is
what is allowing this enhancement of potential
that we're experiencing and is also enhancing the will,
the drive to seek that which is unknown,
that's driving the consciousness from its point
of emptiness, the, the archetypal new mind
that we've talked about a bunch.
And that that new mind is, is enhanced in the focus
because of the, the lack of that, that connection, uh,
to the, to the unconscious mind.
And then, so we have the, you know, the archetypal feminine
and the masculine s also represented by the, by the,
the dipping into the veil where the, the, the what, what is
behind the veil is that which awaits the reaching
and the male principle, the consciousness is that which is
reaching, that which reaches is the male principle,
and the unconscious is the feminine
that which awaits to reaching.
So it's just an ongoing, um, intensification of that will
with, with the veiling existing.
And can you, um, just recap real quick, uh, both
for my benefit and anyone, um, watching, um, the architects
that were present prior to this octave?
I like going back to those.
For some reason it has this very
root fundamental sort of thing.
I guess as we try to work out what these are, I say, well,
if we look at what we know, they kind of stemmed from,
it helps us maybe understand which archetypes are maybe more
fundamental, I suppose,
or primordial, I suppose, you know,
with respect to this incarnation.
Right, right. And that, that was actually how Don began,
uh, some of the questioning.
I believe it was, uh, it was it
before the veil discussion of this,
It was, um, 79, 20.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So they were describing the, the nine.
So I might as well read this whole thing as a, as a recap.
Um, Don said, I would like to try
and understand the archetypes of the mind
of this logos prior
to the extension of the first distortion.
And this also means that a different point
to explain this also meant before our, our galaxy, our
before our universe was born, there was the harvest
of the previous octave.
And that included awareness of the matrix, the potentiator
of the significant of mind, body,
and spirit, which is nine archetypes.
And those are described here also as wr representing our
logos, the exploration of our galaxy of consciousness
before the veiling, which was the
experiment into the separation of the conscious and the,
and the unconscious mind.
And you know, the, the beginnings of what we experience
as this more intense duality where the, the service
to self path can be a viable pursuit
that makes sense to people.
And, um, Don asked, we have, as he stated,
the matrix potentiator
and significant, I understand the matrix as being
that which is the conscious, what we call the,
the conscious mind.
But since it is also that with from which the mind is made,
I'm at a loss to fully understand these three terms,
especially with respect to the time
before there was a division
between conscious and unconscious.
I think it's important to get a good
understanding of these three things.
Could you expand even more upon the matrix of the mind,
the potentiator of significant, how they defer
and what their relationships are.
And so Ron, uh, Rob begins explaining the matrix of mind, is
that from which all comes, it is unmoving,
it is the activator and potentiation of all mind activity.
So that's also called the conscious mind.
So the conscious mind is initially unmoving
in its pure state, it's unmoving
that it is the activator in potentiation
of all mind activity.
Um, so this is maybe a weird use of the word a potentiation,
but, um, but,
but I think it's also, you know, referring to the,
the principle of the, the kinetic
and potential concepts of physics.
Um, it's the, it's activating the potential.
Uh, the potentiator of mind is
that great resource which may be seen
as the C into which the consciousness dips ever deeper
and more thoroughly in order to create, ideate
and become more self-conscious.
You know, I know we've talked about this contrast
obviously a number of times when we, we point out this,
you know, the difference between unmoving
and then obviously that it's dipping.
Um, I don't, I don't necessarily need to reconcile 'em.
I don't know, but why,
why does raw state specifically that the matrix
of the mind is unmoving?
I guess I'm trying to figure out it from whatever,
whatever line of logic or thinking would suggest that it is,
um, moving.
I mean, they sort of contrast it there already,
but I, these are, this is like a perfect example, the kind
of thing that it's like, it's in perfect English.
We can Google the definition of every single thing here.
And yet conceptually this is, um, challenging.
You know, I know that what raw is saying is, is purely, um,
helpful in understanding the archetypes,
and yet trying to, um, reconcile some
of these things is, uh, difficult.
Like it's saying, um,
that it is from which all things come right, the matrix.
And yet in the very next line, the potentiator
is the C into which the consciousness deeps, uh, dips.
And then you would think that that's,
therefore then what things are coming from.
And like, so I see,
I see conflict, I suppose, in these statements.
And yet I understand that the conflict is in my mind, not,
not in how raw is describing them.
It's because I'm having a problem, I suppose, um, trying
to over define or or over
Isolate, which really we're trying to isolate what these,
what these gestalts are, what,
what is the purest form of consciousness?
What is the purest form of potential?
And I think if you just see movement as being defined,
as dipping into potential, then, then you see that the,
the potentiator is, is, is a requirement
for movement to be existing,
But it's saying that the matrix is unmoving.
And so it seems that that's the one thing
that movement cannot represent is the dipping into
the sea, because it, it says, uh,
that the matrix is unmoving, and yet it does this dipping.
And so it's like, on the one hand, it can say, okay, that,
that dipping into consciousness doesn't, doesn't
The, the potentiator dips,
No, it's the C into which the consciousness dips.
But maybe once the dipping has begun,
it's no longer the matrix in its purest fear. Yeah.
I, I think you're right,
because these things exist simultaneously
and we're like sort of moving like a prism, right?
Like we're just looking through one
and then activating another and another,
and it's all one crystal,
but we're just using it in different angles.
And I guess I can see that as soon as you move,
move your awareness, I suppose it's not the matrix
that's moving, but as you, as you, as you,
whether it's a significant or the choice,
but the choice doesn't even exist at, at this state.
This is the nine original archetypes without choice.
Alright? I think it's like if you were meditating
and your mind was blank,
your mind is there and unmoved.
And then when you begin to think
the thinking is the movement, but it's taking place
because of the substrate of the blank mind.
Like I could see that it's where they come together.
You're, you're, yeah, you're taking what the, the,
the function of the mind is
and applying that function to the potentiator.
Yeah. And the, and the thoughts are the movement, my
Concert, But the movement is still happening
because the mind is, is making the movement.
Yeah. I would say that the thought I would like to think
of as movement, like once you pull something out
of this potentiator and,
and maybe are then working with that in consciousness,
I want to feel like, you know,
at some point there's movement here, right?
Like I, I've asked that same question.
Um, when we got to transformation,
that was a, a big one for me.
It was like, what's being transformed here, guys?
Like, you know, and it's like,
maybe it's all of it together.
Maybe it's aspects of the matrix that are being cleaned
and refined, or maybe it's the significant itself. It's,
And like the, the, the biggest thing that I, I always have
to keep in the back of my mind, uh,
when reading all this stuff is the whole fact that,
you know, without going full, um, uh, what was that?
What was that life secret where you, you make a, a board
and you, you create it in your mind,
then your mind creates it,
and then you get a Ferrari in a year,
you know, without vision board. What is that?
The vision board? It's the,
there was a secret law, law of attraction.
The secret, yeah. Law of attraction without going full
that side of it, there is very well defined
things like the double slit experiment
where it didn't actually form into two slits
until the observer was present.
Like, you have to take that into consideration that your
observation and thoughts within this universe had substance.
And that plays in the back
of my mind the whole time I'm reading this kind of stuff.
I'd like to see the, the, the significant brought into
that same, that same analogy right there.
I'd like to see this almost, um, geometrically honestly,
I wanna see this, this triangle
or something even moving into a tetrahedron,
which would require a fourth vantage point
to view these three in relationship.
But, um, I have to obviously wonder
what part the significant plays in that.
I think there's also value in considering that these are
described often as, as these archetypes are, are tools for
we who are far distorted from the original blueprint,
and yet we are still able to tap into
and appreciate the raw nature of the blueprint to enhance
every aspect of our seeking and, and our will and our faith.
And that's why I think when they said
that when you tap into the matrix
and its fullest, purest form, then that
that would be the new mind, which is untouched and virgin
and, and that only that newest of minds has not yet moved.
And then that, that new mind
that's dwelling in the archetype of the new
and unblemished mind, without bias, without polarity,
it is still full of the magic of the logos.
So that be becoming the, the archetypal magician,
I think is becoming that which is completely unmoving
for the, for the sake of returning back to that, that
that fullest potential before, before it's dipped into,
Yeah. So when I think of
the, the blemish in this case, that's,
you know, again, I'm sort of like wanting to see, I guess,
the antithesis in each case of what raw might be, you know,
saying in this case, and not the opposite,
but just to say that if there is a mind that is unblemished,
then it sort of implies that there is a state
or some aspect of mind that can be blemished.
And I would say like absolutely the subjective experience
and ultimate energetic body expression that is all
of us is certainly nothing but blemish.
I mean, we are, we are, we are the perfect prism
and then taken and,
and made into what each of us is uniquely our own.
And yet I still go to the same thing and say, okay,
but where does that blemish live?
Exactly. If it's not the matrix of my mind that's,
that's blemished, pre-incarnate or karmically
or whatever, then there's some aspect of these archetypes
that constitutes the energetic body, that holds the karmic
entanglements and frequencies and energies and lessons
and everything that we're calling to us,
I think you'd call it the focus of the mind, the focus,
the mind can, the mind can focus on, on things as opposed to
the substrata or the, the, the purest form
that comes before the forms, the,
the formless mind can come before the formed.
I see. So we, we all attach our energetic system
and patterns and frequencies around the same,
the same framework that is completely
identical in all of us.
So my matrix of my mind is exactly the same as all of yours,
but the energetic system that I drape around mine, um,
has been constructed
with different experiences and different transformation.
And that's that in my mind,
if I'm getting this analogy right, the energetic, uh,
draping is the potentiator that's you're draping yourself
with potential experiences to, uh,
impact your specific, uh, you know,
frequency or blemish or whatever
That is a whatever. That is
a really great way to, to actually think about that,
Nick, because we are talking pre-incarnate
and the life between lives at the sole level
where we line up these sort of lessons.
Yeah. Um, the archetypes are present there, right?
Like, okay, so if the third density body is gone,
first of all mm-hmm.
What archetypes remain in, in that sole level life
between lives, you know, life review that we do,
and then, you know, we stack up these kinda lessons, it has
to be choosing from available options.
Right? And so the potentiator
and matrix must still be present,
presumably says a significant, um,
but what aspects of these 22 archetypes are lost?
Um, in between physical incarnations, the body? Yeah, all
Body.
Now we've talked about this though before,
and I do not yet wholly subscribe
to when raw refers to the body
that it is only an ever right.
The physical body. Now, I do know that they about first,
second, and third density bodies
and at the material level up to sort of the constructive up
to the enlivened, you know, third density body.
But I believe that we've got like seven energy bodies and,
and that we manifest that body at an energetic level.
And while it exists energetically,
it's slightly differently than my physical body does here
for purposes and the sake of archetypal understanding,
I don't know that there's any difference at all
between quote the body,
but if there is, I'd really like
to know if the energetic bodies that exist
above their density operate totally differently
and it doesn't operate in the same like, um, normal, uh,
functioning, you know, the potentiators
this and you know that.
It's like, I'd like to understand that. Um,
Well, once you get to a certain point,
the veil gets dropped and then you're,
you're like hardwired in to all the knowledge.
I think that the body, the physical body as,
as we're experiencing it, is exactly for
that purpose, for the experience.
And then once you die, you give up the physical body,
you know, maybe even you hold onto a part of the energy body
of this experience.
You do, you go to the sixth, the sixth, um, Ray, the pur,
the indigo ray body, right?
Is the one that, that comes in, in the life between lives
that sort of reconstitute
and re re manifest the physical self.
Yeah. Like, it, it, you hold onto the energy
of the experience
and the physical body until, you know, whatever it,
whether it's a, a download back into the mind, you know, uh,
a rehashing of your experiences
to set up the next incarnation, you know,
whatever it may be, it's still there,
but at a certain point you dissolve back into, you know,
the substrata from which all matter comes from.
Well, the physical body does though,
I guess this is my question, is that if Ross has,
at the indigo ray body is the one that is, um, sort
of the activated or principle body
after death, then I kind of go back to my original question.
Are you positing that there are no,
that all seven archetypes of the body cease
to exist at death?
In which case, I would say why does refer to sixth,
you know, the sixth indigo ray body? It's,
It's the view of them that shifts, I think.
And I think, I think it's just like
they say the the physical body, the incarnation is, is
functional, whereas the time space form, which is more to do
with spirit, yeah.
It's, it has more to do with the nature of being.
And so the, you know, the, the restructuring of the,
the patterns of the body might be from a,
from a very different vantage point.
And it could be that all the archetypes are there.
It is just you're, you've got this grand overview,
they call it the grand overview.
And, and so maybe you're, you're hanging out in the, in the,
the great way of the body a little bit more as you, as you
perceive the past incarnation
and you're just looking at everything you did in the body
from a different vantage point.
And then those archetypes are still guiding you as you,
as you would choose, uh, the next incarnation. I think
I could see that.
I could see them being present
and yet not wholly expressed, I suppose, you know,
it's just part of our, yeah.
Of our energetic, um, system. Um, I certainly
Wonder What transformation comes in.
'cause we say that we can't fix things obviously in our life
between lives, but we are sort of lining things up.
Um, I don't know, just the, the expression
of the archetypes themselves has to be different between,
you know, an incarnated life and, and a, a pre
or post incarnated life.
Um, but not so much that they're not all present.
I mean, that I, I can't go so far as to say,
but it does seem like, to your point, Mike,
that perhaps we move more into the great way
and maybe transformation actually isn't even active either.
Just like the, uh, the body until we go re-express in
incarnated reality.
That's what I mean by dissolving back into the substrate.
Like you, like exactly what you just said.
It's, it's, it's the consciousness
from which everything comes.
You individuate, you have the experience,
and then you go back into the consciousness.
Well, you know, there's a, there's
a distance between the two.
So that's those in-between paths.
But it, you know, at a certain point, you, you decide
what kind of the potentiation of this incarnation,
this physical body, you start lining everything up,
then you incarnate the veil drops, what the hell's going on,
you know, for a while?
And then you die,
the veil comes off again and you're like, oh, right.
Oh, okay. So how'd I do, you know, what,
what were, were the experiences?
And then you go back into the consciousness again
that those experiences still, I don't
Think that you can dissolve entirely though, Nick.
I think you, you certainly must know yourself
as much more conscious in that, in that way.
But the entire karmic cycle
and wheel of life tells us that our karmic patterns
and lessons, um, are much longer and,
and stick with us much longer than singular
or even multiple incarnated cycles.
And so that tells me that there is some aspect
of this energetic body that is reporting my experience,
that even in my life
between lives is still very much present.
It's like my hard drive
and I'm rearranging, you know, the lessons that are present
and what I want to call to me.
But I couldn't see that as a, as a full
disillusion into consciousness,
because if I did that, I'd be
done. I wouldn't be coming back.
No. And, and I think that the biggest difference in
what I'm thinking and how I'm saying it, is that
the, the, the disillusion doesn't mean like if you had a zi,
the zi comes off of your skin, your skin bubbles up,
and then the zit goes away, your skin goes back down.
It was always your skin,
but it was called a zit at that moment.
Mm-hmm. You get what I'm saying? So like
I do, it's like identity really.
You identify as the body,
or you identify as the consciousness that
en enlightens the body or the energetic system
or whatever we want call this.
Yeah. So, 'cause we, if we, if you know, if
what we're reading and,
and you know, what we talk about all the time is true.
We're all one. You come outta one,
you become one A, and then you go back into one.
You know, you, you were always feeding into the same system
because it's the one system. It's the one
And never not one. Exactly.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Well, I'll just read one quote on this subject.
Um, this, this question was about, as an entity ghost
through the death process and third density
and finds itself in time space,
it finds itself in a different set of circumstances.
Would you please describe the properties
or circumstances of time, space, and the,
and the process of healing of incarnate experiences
that some entities encounter.
And then they said, this is difficult
to answer adequately due to the limitations of your space,
time, sound, vibration complexes,
your words are not very good for this. Yeah.
But, Um, I,
I am not sure I could skip this paragraph
'cause it's just talking about the physics of, uh, speed
of light being approached from faster than speed of light.
Superluminal velocities.
It's, it's a little, uh, unusual,
but they say that the time space
or metaphysical experience is
that which is very finely tuned.
And although an analog of space time
lacking in its tangible characteristics
and these metaphysical planes, there is a great deal of
what you call time, which is used to review
and re-review the biases
and learn teachings of a prior
timespace incarnation space time incarnation.
The extreme fluidity of these timespace regions,
the metaphysical dimensions, makes it possible for much
to be penetrated and I suppose come back into the
appreciation of oneness with source.
Much is penetrated, which must needs be absorbed
before the process of healing
of an entity may be accomplished.
Each entity is located in a somewhat immobile state, much
as you are located in space time
and a somewhat immobile state in time.
In this immobile space, the entity has been placed
by the form maker, which is the indigo body and higher self.
So that it may be in the proper configuration
for learned teaching that that
that which it has received in the space time incarnation
Is there, are they implying that that's really when most
of the learning of what we experience happens?
It's interesting. That is, that might be true.
Interesting. That which is unlearned, i,
I guess maybe the idea that we're, well
they said we have short lifespans partly
because we're, we're failing
to learn our lessons and it's like
We're unconscious. Yeah.
We're literally just beating our heads against the
wall over and over again.
I've tried nothing and I'm all outta ideas.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I, I, I guess I, i dunno if that implies that
unless you're living to 900 years, you're gonna have a lot
of review to do between incarnations.
But I, boy, I sure feel like life comes at it so fast
that can barely process from day to day all the lessons
that could have been present if
I hadn't been watching closely.
Really. That is a crazy thing to think about too,
when you look at it like day by day like that,
how much you potentially could,
how much catalyst had come your way if you analyze each
little bit of it, but then you get
that opportunity in the time space realm to go back day
by day like this and analyze every little detail.
It's, it's just kind of mind boggling in this case,
because like you said, Mike, it's just all coming
so fast now that
unless you take the time, it's, it's overwhelming
Really. And it's
not done at the cost of experiencing Catalyst now,
which if you tried to meet every moment
and reflect on every instant of every day
where catalyst may have been available, I would contend
that you will quickly run out of time to encounter Catalyst
because you are sitting there trying to figure out
what was Catalyst an hour ago,
a catalyst that's present now.
So that's why I thought that was so fascinating, Mike,
when you said things are coming so fast
and it's like, gosh, I don't know.
That's, that's a little bit different.
And I wouldn't say that I don't ever have that experience.
Um, but that seems to mean something to me
because we always talk about the availability of Catalyst
and whether or not it's being called by the higher self
and, you know, talked a lot about that.
But it's very interesting, the, the nature of our response
or our, um, characterization of it, of Catalyst.
Um, a lot of people don't see it as catalyst, first
of all, um, at all.
So even opportunity.
Yeah. Um, to see that we're always, we always have
so much opportunity for growth, I think is really
Well. And I think Corey Goode,
when he talks about
visiting the Blue or, or visiting the,
and Shar put it best where he's talking to them about like,
oh, I gotta, he's talking about the normal woes of life
and they're sitting there like, oh my God, so much room
for growth, so many catalysts.
And he's like, no, man, I'm trying on wine deer.
Oh man, there's, that is just so weird.
It is really weird. Um,
but I, I would like to come back at some point maybe when we
get, um, to the catalyst
and we look at those three combined, I'd like
to look at this, um, sort of like how we encounter it
and whether or not each of us is like,
oh man, it's all day every day.
It's all I see is opportunities for growth.
Or if I'm like, man, I had one last Thursday. Yeah.
Get something on my calendar for Tuesday that might,
you know, be something good,
but in the meantime, I'm just here waiting. Uh, yeah.
A lot of people are living in, in a state of mind
where they're distracting themselves all the time too,
and the distractions, uh, are entertaining more
so than they are seen as opportunities for personal growth.
But I, yeah, I think there's, there's endless
opportunities around every corner.
I mean, even yeah, analyzing, like, like, like we, we are,
we are extracting as much as we can out of, out
of just 22 images.
Mm-hmm. And yet a television will give
you 30 of them per second.
Yeah.
Um, but yeah,
I guess a person can go schizophrenic if they start looking
too much into, into images and they
Start, I would suggest actually that the TV will,
will offer, um, as many opportunities for Catalyst and,
and re comprehension as almost anything else depending on
what it is that you're looking at
and what you're choosing to see in it and why.
Yeah. For example, go watch something true crime related,
go watch True Crime, watch it and watch what humanity does,
and see what comes up within you in terms
of discomfort Yeah.
Or forgiveness or whatever it is.
Like, find a way to encapsulate
and understand that experience as your own.
Because if you can't, what are, what else are you keeping
outside of yourself?
What else are you keeping outside of the one?
Yeah. And, and there's, there's things
that you're never gonna realize connect to other things
unless you sit and you really think about it that that like,
man, that was such a, a moment
that I would've never thought was gonna do anything.
But then you track your life back
and you're like, oh yeah, well, I just kind of said hi to
that person and then when I met, we met this person
and then blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And you know, it, it's,
it's always there and it's always happening.
It's just how much are you
recognizing it and how much are you acting?
I started from The Secret, nick, you brought it up earlier
today that literally started my whole path
of awakening happened to be that movie.
I Exactly. I watched it probably three
or four times that first month
and didn't really go back to it again since then
because I just didn't necessarily need to.
I may sometime, but that, wait, which movie? The Secret.
Oh, yeah. That happened to be the thing that sort of
lit me off because yeah, this idea it had as a teenager, um,
that I called the Certainty Principle
because I didn't even know
what Heisenberg's Uncertainty principle was.
I know what it is now, or at least have
a lay understanding of it.
But I just had this notion that I was,
I was just absolutely certain that
certainty itself predicts reality.
And, and if uncertainty as a relationship with reality, then
so much certainty turned out that was a law of attraction
and manifestation and things like that.
But that was the like little inroad that, you know, for me,
not really a lot of framework, there really not a lot
to hang your hat on in terms of Yeah.
Philosophy or, you know, the rest of it really.
But, um, it just happened to be my on-ramp in that way and,
and it was great and beautiful,
but like you said, you can go back to this moment
and see, I'm in this conversation with you guys right now
because on that Friday night, four years ago,
I was like, ah, what am I gonna watch?
Okay, I'm gonna watch this. Mm-hmm.
I would love to also contend that I might be on this call
with you anyway because, um, mathematicians
real quick have also determined that time travel may not be
as paradoxical as once thought.
Um, because mathematically somebody sort
of put forth Ethereum that says, even if he went back
and changed this thing that led to this thing, yeah.
This thing over here is actually still more likely
to happen than not.
I can't tell you why mathematically that's a thing.
But I can't say also that if I had not watched that movie,
that I wouldn't be on this call with you guys
because it may have been that movie or any other movie
or a book or any other thing.
Yeah. That my Higher Self said,
this call, you are gonna be on it.
And whatever I need to do to put in front of you to get you
with these three other people
to look at this information is
what's gonna happen. Whether this was,
Wait, you just gave a per a perfect example of Catalyst
and, uh, their relationship to Potentiator,
because the potentiator is almost this list of lessons
to be learned, and then the catalyst get peppered in.
So had you not watched that movie, you know,
the potential would've been like, oh, well we gotta,
we gotta get on that call in 2025,
so let's throw this book out him,
see if it gets 'em down that path.
Mm-hmm. You know, and that, that's
where it's just a constant everyday thing
where you can choose to do any one thing
and it sets off this path,
but you're still gonna be brought back to
that lesson if you need to learn that lesson.
And I think also non-linear time, I think some
of these things happened non-linearly
for this reason. Yeah.
And that's, that's the Timespace programming.
It's almost like there's roads being
built that, that are happening.
And I think it even happens when we're, when we're sleeping,
we're working on the roads of our days and weeks to come.
As we have the vantage point from Timespace,
we're probably refining to a certain degree
that which we saw before we were born
and like, yep, I want to get there eventually.
So how can I reposition a little bit?
Because I want that peace, I want that wisdom,
and I'm gonna keep on, you know, tweaking my, um,
I guess you're tweaking your, your
consciousness in little ways as you sleep.
Um, and maybe you're healing yourself in different ways
as you sleep, but you're, you're re you're allowing yourself
to navigate differently.
And I think the dreams are, are showing us hints of how
that navigation could be happening
and giving us a different way
of looking at the navigation systems. Um,
We're also transforming our past, which again,
is an idea time itself, they said just in the one
that you just read that time is this relatively fixed point
because we only have this one moment now, time itself
as a construct, as an idea.
I know, you know, it took me a lot longer
and I don't even always have it really that well,
but I've got it a lot more than I used to.
It's just a weird, weird relationship with time.
But I, I think that as we re comprehend our past, the notion
that, I don't wanna say from an objective level
that my past has changed,
certainly from a subjective level, my past has changed.
I had a past that I saw
and experienced one way for quite a while,
and that have had experiences that have allowed me to
re-understand and re comprehend the past.
And really, if you were to say, well, what changed?
Well, was it the events
or the physical sort of what was present?
I would say that you could call that objective,
but really what changed is the subjective experience
and the meaning ascribed to it.
Which, you know, definitely speaks to a non-linear
and like a, you know, a disconnected experience of time.
Because if you, if you could grow up ashamed
of this one thing and then come to forgive yourself
or realize that there was more facts that you weren't aware
of or that somebody else was involved
or blah, blah, blah, whatever it is,
you can always learn new information
that will completely change how you saw something
or how you judge something or someone or the self.
And I would say that given that that's your experience
and what you know, and what you've decided,
then that has changed.
That has changed. And you, you, you can't say
that it didn't, well, it didn't change objectively.
Well, no, it changed for the only person who claimed it
as experience to begin with.
And so I've reclaimed that experience in a new,
a new way and a new understanding.
And even if somebody else's experience, you know,
if they were there or present,
they didn't even share the same experience.
It has nothing to do with re comprehending their experience
because they're not the ones being transformed through
re-understanding, you know,
the past if we wanna call it that.
Yeah. Yeah.
I think there's hints of the, the timelessness
that are in the spirit cards
and in the symbols of the, the Hines
that we talked about a few months ago.
Those are representing the timeless nature of the,
that which is drawing the mind forward.
How can you have forward if there's no time or space?
Well, there's just choice of, of, uh, experience, I guess.
Expression. Expression. Yeah. Um,
Certain teachings.
Well, and even this one I think suggests that
because choice was not an archetype in the previous octave
in and of itself is kind of interesting, right.
How do you have, I guess you don't have
choice without polarity.
You don't have choice without something
to choose from or choose between.
And so without a veil, are you really choosing
or are you just simply expressing
from all that is available?
Well, poker, hand playing a game of poker,
knowing all the outcomes, that was that whole, uh, analogy.
'cause you know, you, you really don't have a choice.
I know if I call him, you know, he's gonna call me
and I'm gonna, I'm gonna have to fold
or, you know, if I raise him, then he won't raise me.
You know, if you knew everything, then there is no choice.
You just know what gets
The job. You're just playing it
out. And without time,
you are experiencing it.
Right now as you, you're experiencing the whole of that
existence and you know,
that whole poker game, you've experienced it.
Yeah. In all moments, you're experiencing the whole poker
game and you know, it beginning to end and backwards.
And I think once you, uh, go through, you go
through this experience and then you switch realms and,
and you're not living through time chronologically anymore.
You can download, analyze,
and look at your whole life instantly
and then, you know, make the next list of potentiation
and then, you know, reincarnate and do it again.
And, but
It's just from like a higher level, right?
Like you're more observing,
looking at it since you can't really
change anything at that point.
It's like, I'll propose these ideas
or hope to maybe learn this lesson next time around.
But, you know, maybe, maybe there is more, um,
intuitive guidance as well to this.
And I kind of think that might come in with the potentiator
as well, that these ideas
and subconscious things come up to us intuitively,
whether mind, body
or spirit that kind of maybe give you a little nudge in
that sort of direction as you're going.
But yeah, from that other side, it's, it's all just,
I guess, setting up the ideas
and the intentional intention lessons to be learned.
It'd be nice to know who the, who is there
and what the identity is there.
Whether that's,
That was, I didn't get the end of that
Breaking up, but yeah, higher self working.
If the ego of consciousness is tied to third density body
and that's dead and now gone, the self means
to know the self as a self and the life between lives
and you're doing this life review, are you the higher self
or are you being sort of guided by your higher self?
And then at that point you're more of the soul body,
and so you don't know yourself separate from your higher
self or the form maker.
What is the self at that point?
Well, I've always looked at it as like, so if you're,
if you're one of whatever, call through the densities, call
through the chakras, whatever it is, higher self,
but the, if you wanna number it, you die out of the third,
third density body
and the fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth densities.
You know, like these higher portions of yourself reach back
and take you by the hand.
And then you just keep peeling the mask away until you get
to the portion of yourself
that is no longer even separate from the all. So you're,
Yeah. This sentence
that Mike has highlighted right now literally
calls out three individuated aspects
of self in one sentence, entity form maker higher self.
Yeah. These are all three part of us.
And raw is saying the entity has been placed
by the form maker and the higher self.
And it's like, okay, wait a minute.
What's entity and what's, where's identity there and
Process? So I
thought that as entity is your body, the form maker
and the higher self are like, uh, when you leave your body
and you have that consciousness
that's still more individuated towards you
and your experiences talking with your higher self,
which is closer to the all.
So they're, they're, they're both reviewing
what went down in this life, which was the entity which is
offshoot one A from the Neal, you know, how did one A go?
Well, once the entity dropped away the form maker and,
and you know, the, the part of yourself that's closest
to being in Neal, but not quite there yet.
They're, they're having the conversation
about what the entity did.
And then you can either dissolve back into,
or you can form another, another line
and go back down in the entity again.
I gotta read this one. This, this question was asked
by Don, is there any loss to the mind or spirit
after this transition, which we call death
or any impairment of either
because of the loss of this chemical body that we now have?
And Ross said in your terms, there is a great loss
of mind complex due to the fact that much of the activity
of a mental nature of which you are aware
during the experience of this space time continuum is
as much a surface illusion
as is the chemical body complex. That's
The ego right there.
Yeah. And yes, you lose the ego when you die.
And that is a big chunk of what your experience
of the mind is in this incarnation.
'cause the ego steps forward, grabs all the resources
and says, all right, here we go, I'm gonna run.
But then, yeah, it, that's a, that's, I love that.
Thanks for pulling that up Mike. That's a great way
To, and this next one has even more
clarity on what this entity is.
I think when they say in other terms, nothing, whatever
of importance is lost the character,
or shall we say pure distillation of emotions and biases
or distortions and wisdoms, if you will, becoming obvious
for the first time, shall we say these pure emotions
and wisdoms and bias distortions being, for the most part,
either ignored or underestimated
during physical life experience.
That's really reassuring.
'cause they're really telling us all the things
that we're afraid to lose everything
that makes me like me, right?
It makes me unique.
And they're like, well, no, actually all the things
that actually make it unique, you are actually sort
of less aware of right now
because of this chunk of the mind
that's off on this tangent the whole time.
And so they're saying no, all
that really unique stuff just becomes
really, really apparent.
That's basically all you are at that point. That's neat.
Yeah. Um, so we could say this is related
to some, some sort of astral body on some level,
but I'm not sure if
that's the right way to look at all this. Um,
Some kind of what body? Mike?
Astral body. Oh, astral body. Yeah.
I was thinking that with the form maker.
That is the indigo ray body, right?
Yeah. Okay. Alright.
Um, I think we should start diving into the, the,
the archetypes again here
and just quickly cover the recap the, the original
discussions and then see if we can extract more meaning out
of the, out of the symbols than we have
previously. So wait,
Mike, you, you said that there seems
to be something in the card that indicates timelessness.
Yeah, that was the sphinx. They said,
Oh, the sphinx indi.
So the sphinx indicates you're in time
space instead of space time.
Well, it indicated the,
that which is moving the chariot forward in the,
in the great way of the mind archetype.
Um, but they also say, you know, that the, um, the,
the energies and movements of the spirit are
by far the most profound, yet having more close association
with time space do not have the
characteristics of dynamic motion.
So in theory, all the symbols that we have with this,
the spirit are talking more about the,
the time space component of the self,
which we don't really see.
We see, we, we, we feel it, we have the sense of this light,
this lightning, which is illuminating the path,
but it's not, it's like we, we, yeah,
we don't really have a direct manifestation of
that lightning other than that.
It's like now the things are becoming more, more alive,
But we don't have him or,
or raw directly saying along the lines of like, uh,
the SPX is indicative of
the more ethereal time space realms.
He said that the sphinx drawing the chariot,
Let me pull that up.
Um,
Because that could be a, a good, uh, distinction.
'cause like if we see a sphinx in the upper left-hand corner
and the, you know, we can interpret
that the person has the left eye.
Veiled means that the, that the females, you know, if,
if we can interpret everything
and then the stinks happens to be in a certain portion
of the card, can we draw conclusions about that portion?
So let's see what they say here.
They, uh, Don was asking about the
fixes in card number seven.
Um, Don was assuming they
represent catalyst that has been mastered.
Ross says, firstly, we asked the student
to consider the great way not as the culmination of a series
of seven activities or functions,
but as a far more clearly delineated image
of the environment within which the mind born at body
or spirit shall function.
Therefore, the culturally determined creatures
called FX is do not indicate mastery over catalyst.
That second, second position of placing the creatures
as the movers of the chariot of the mind as more virtue
you may connote the concept of time to the image
of the sphinx, the mental and,
and mental emotional complex ripens and moves
and is transformed in time.
So I guess maybe it's just more about the nature
of time itself rather than timelessness.
Yeah, well I guess you could say the, you know,
we're we're being drawn through the time
by the time space, uh, nature.
Okay.
And then they said they were talking about the lights
and the another one they're already talking about the Spanx
is, um, timespace is close
and this concept complex brought close due
to the veiling process and its efficacious
and producing actors wish to use the resources
of the mind in order to evolve.
So Timespace is close.
I'm not saying it is present in the, yeah, yeah.
Oh, okay. I mean I love
that when they give direct answers, you gotta latch onto it
because it's so infrequent.
Yeah, yeah.
Um, so there was one other recap.
It was 78, let's go to 78.
Oh,
78 11 was the first initial
explanation of these archetypes.
Um, in mind complex, the matrix may be described
as consciousness of it has been called the magician.
It is to be noted that of itself consciousness is unmoved.
The potentiator of consciousness is the unconscious.
This encompasses a vast realm of potential
of the mind and the body.
The matrix may be seen as balanced, working
or even functioning.
Note that here, the matrix is always active with no means
of being inactive.
The potentiator of the body complex then may be called
wisdom, or it's only through judgment
that the unceasing activities, proclivities
of the body complex may be experienced in useful modes.
So maybe we should stop there
and start talking about these, these two together,
the matrix of the mind of the matrix of the body
before we dive into the spirit.
And the, we, we spent so much time,
it was quite a while ago now that we spent a lot
of time discussing the symbols in this a matrix
of the mind card.
And it seems to me that some of the,
the core symbols here are the, the, the pillars on that,
the sides representing the structure, the foundations
or the structure of polarity that is seems to be a part
of the function of this dipping into
the potential of the mind.
It's like built in
and there's a garment here, which is raw calls it the,
the mantle and,
and the word mantle, uh,
comes from like a Latin word meaning cloak.
And it can mean the shawl
and it it's raw describes it as protective
by the very character of potentiation.
This is a symbol of protection and it's got fruit on it
because they said to bear fruit is a protected activity.
And we just, we have this discussion when we were first
discussing this archetype about what,
what does this protection mean?
And we came to maybe, uh, uh, understanding that this could
represent protection of interpretations of the mind, the way
that the directions that the thoughts are headed
and that the lens of viewing our reality is,
is like protected by, by the continued fruit
that's coming from a particular path of, of the mind.
And, and the bearing of fruit could be said to be related
to, you know, actually picking a polarity
because you're bearing fruit usually
on one of the other polarity.
The, the fruit is coming in service
to others or in service to self.
What are we, um, if we're looking at protection,
what are we thinking that we're being protected from?
Because like, kinda my first thought on that is
that like really anything that comes out can be useful
and whether or not we interpret it
or use it as appropriate catalyst
or not is, is by choice of course.
But is that what you mean?
That like nothing can come out of there that is,
that cannot, that has no means by which it could be used,
um, for greater polarization, I suppose, or harvestability,
or what would we be protected from?
I i it could be protected from, uh, a loss
of the usefulness of the catalyst.
Um, not, not, not recognizing the, the path
that we were trying to learn through.
Um, but, but we were discussing also this quote which
relates to the experience of the bind that
a purely chosen path.
When you're purely choosing,
you don't have the outward shelter from Gus flurries
and blizzards of quick and cruel catalyst,
but to the pure, all that is encountered speaks of the love
and the light of the one infinite creator.
The cruelest blow is seen with an ambiance
of challenges offered and opportunities to come.
So this could be what we're, what we're
ensuring bears fruit is the, the, the choice of perspective
and interpretation allowing us to see in terms
of the opportunities of the,
of the catalyst that is present.
That was the best I could come up with.
Yeah, no, I like that. I mean, it does sort of mean
that we always have the ability to use any catalyst to
our benefit, I suppose.
But, um, can you pull up the, the session where protection
or that's actually mentioned
is, or did you already have that?
Yeah. Is that the one that Was relating to,
to the service to others versus service
to self path as well?
That the right hand service to others path has
that protection whereas the service to self does not?
Or are we relating that more on
Yeah, no, no, that you're right Nathan.
I was trying to figure out where we've else,
we've encountered this, and you're right that there is a lot
or there's a question about being protected on the service
to others path.
Yeah. That was the transformation of the Yeah,
that was the, the mind card, the devil.
Yeah. That was a different kind
of protection we were discussing.
We had, we had come to the conclusion in a different call
that maybe the, uh, um,
let's see if I can scoot back to that image.
Yeah. The idea here was I think that the, um,
that that that person which is seeking separation will have
the transformation of mind being guarded by
that continued choice of separation along that path.
Yeah. So we can't ever choose
and effectively be separate,
can't ever make it actually be a thing.
All it means is that we can continue to try to explore it
and the path back
or the realization that that is a, an an impossible choice
is always available to us.
We cannot be lost.
We cannot make a, a choice
after which there is no going back.
That's true. But we can make a choice, which reinforces
the previous choice, I think was part of the point
of this image.
The, the, the transformation
of the mind are the lovers and the two paths.
And that the transformation can't happen without it,
the choice being, being made, it seems.
But this was a separate discussion that Yeah,
I'm not sure if that relates as much
to the protection being talked about by this mantle.
And I, I'll just pull up the mantle thing.
Um, and, and we'll talk about what they said there.
Um, so, so, uh,
we have taken those fruit on the,
well maybe I should pull up the previous one here.
So, okay.
So were the grapes depicted on the cloth
covering the shoulder of the priestess of raw?
Uh, were they communicated by raw?
Ross said, yes, that was what we intended.
We have taken those as indicating the
fertility of the subconscious mind.
Is this correct? Ross says this is correct to a student,
but note ye the function of the mantle.
So the significance of the fruit here is
that they're on the garment.
There's great protection given by the very character
of potentiation to bear.
Fruit is a protected activity.
And then Don asked, the protection here seems to be depicted
as being on the right hand side, but not the left.
Would this indicate greater protection
for the positive path than the negatives?
And Ross said, you perceive correctly an inborn bias
offering to the seeing I
and listing ear information concerning the choice
of the more efficient polarity we would at this time,
as you may call, it's just one wonderful query.
Okay. That was unrelated to the,
but yeah, the idea here is they're hinting at
efficiency along the, the path of bearing fruit
with the service to others path.
What they're saying that's basically being protected is
our, our access to efficient polarity.
Yeah.
Seems to be.
But ultimately, I mean, we, we could say that there's, um,
there's more to be gained here when we consider the, uh,
I'm gonna skip back to the potentiator of the body.
We could consider the relationship
between these a little bit more
and say that this, I, you know,
I was considering why is there no fruit on the, uh,
the potentiator of the body as, as opposed to the, the mind,
the potentiator of the mind, that which is drawing forth
the, the seeking that infinite potential of the seeking is,
is, is showing the potential of the fruit, the, the, the
continued fruitfulness of this path of
inward reaching with the deep mind.
But then the, the use of the body is, is something
that maybe is not as directly seen as fruitful,
but I don't know if that's necessarily what this image is,
is saying, but we'll, we'll,
we can dive into the symbols of this one. Now, I
Don't know if it is or not, but
that certainly resonates with me.
I mean, an overinvestment in, in all physical reality,
let alone the physical body itself.
I mean, many people's entire lives are wrapped up entirely
around the image of their body, the image
of other people's bodies, the
interaction with other people's bodies.
I mean, I mean, not to, you know, to sort of, uh,
oversimplify what you were saying, Mike,
but like Yeah, no, that certainly resonates with me.
I mean, if they're saying like, sure, this is here
and available, um,
the course in Miracles says the body is strictly
a communications device, right?
So like they really try to contextualize the body
as it's only here as a means to communicate.
So if, if you notice that for that reason,
that certainly resonates for me.
Yeah. And what, which card is the one on the right,
This is number nine, the potentiate of the body wisdom
or the sage, and then the right
or weight deck, I think this was mixed up with,
or was it No, it was the other one.
It was number eight. It was mixed up with number.
It was the experience or mixed up,
but that's just the people are using a different deck.
Well, they'll understand why these aren't the exact same.
Um, yeah. The enchanters has experienced the body,
and so they also refer to this as representing judgment,
um, that the, the potential
of the body conflicts may be called wisdom
for only through judgment.
The unceasing activities
and proclivities of the body complex may be
experienced in useful modes.
And so, and, and I think it's also very fascinating to,
to consider the, the male
and female relationships here, where the,
the male principle is that which is reaching.
And so what, what is the, what is the wisdom reaching and,
and the, the, the matrix of the body is the balanced working
or even functioning or justice.
And this is a female that is awaiting the reaching.
So we have an ongoing movement, which awaits reaching.
And that reaching is called wisdom in use of the body.
And that's, that's the masculine principle is,
is finding ways to, to take the body
and use it for purposes, which hopefully are
as balanced as possible,
but will be less potentially catalytic if they are not
as balanced as possible.
But the purified archetypal form of wisdom is gonna be
building upon the, and reaching out to the balance
and building upon the balance that the, that
that is always the, the background essence
of our, of our reality.
That feminine principle that that's calling,
calling the birthing, I guess maybe on some sense of, of,
of the balance and the even function.
And that continues our ability
to have useful experiences in the body.
Um, so two things.
One, it said that we, you were
envisioning more catalyst or better catalyst,
or a greater catalytic, um, experience
through the balanced working
of the body, which is interesting.
'cause just, you know, without any context,
I would normally think that anything that's grossly out
of balance is certainly very catalytic
because it's very obviously, you know, incongruent
or doesn't, you know, feel right or, or what have you.
Um, but in the, in the text, if you go back over there,
something that jumped out, um,
The unceasing activities
and proclivities of the body complex may be
experienced in useful mode.
So the matrix is, is balanced working,
but it's also sort of implying that there are activities
and proclivities that are baked into the matrix.
And I would say that the matrix of the physical body,
especially in physical reality, certainly has proclivities
that just like in what we were talking about a minute ago in
that, you know, there's maybe more fruit to be gained in,
in the mind, uh, than there is perhaps in the body.
Um, and so it says that that's the only way
that it can be experienced in useful mode.
So the body says, I want food, I want sex,
I want shelter, I want, you know, the things of the body.
It's normal balance functioning without us thinking about
it, without us ever being taught about sex ed or nutrition
or, you know, any of the things the body, like literally
like has the, this normal balance function as we call it,
you might say desires or something,
but it's like, it, it, it requires,
it has its requirements, the body does.
And so it's through the, the judgment of how we use the body
that it becomes useful.
So when we choose our partner, when we choose our food,
when we choose where we live,
and we choose how we treat the body, uh,
then it becomes useful as sort of,
you know, catalyst, I suppose.
At least that's how that the, um, the, the,
the text strikes me,
Right? I thought
Of it the same way too. So
It's like almost instinctual as the matrix.
You're just going off of instinct doing
those things. But yeah,
When you actually that it doesn't make it right
or wrong, but yeah.
Yeah. The, the ma the potentiator you said is the,
is the wisdom, right?
Is the one that's actually now sort of, um, the,
the wave of possibility collapses into, you know,
the particle of reality when we choose
what we're gonna eat for dinner, right?
Like, so the, the body's matrix desires, food needs, food
that's balanced, functioning,
and the, the potentiator is, uh, now I don't know if that's
what makes the selection
or if the significant, the potentiator is sort of
where it comes to the matrix grabs it from the potentiator,
and then the significant decides, do I like this food?
I think this, there, there is a one, one mapping here
between the potentiator of the mind
and the potentiator of the body
because the, uh, the, the wanting of food
and the, the ability to, to have that fueling, uh, our,
our wisdom is, has gotta be connected.
Well, the food, the, the need for food, not the desire,
but the, the requirement of food seems to be a, a function
of the matrix of the body,
right? Because this is the balanced
Function. But then, but then the actual
choice of the mind to pursue
pursue that food has gotta be connected to the,
the unconscious awareness of what food is and can be,
and how we would go about getting food.
Yeah. So the, the, the potentiator here, um,
and I like that they, that they call it wisdom
because, um, if we have never been taught anything
and we've been fed gummy bears, you know,
from the time we were toddlers,
then we, that's what we know.
That's the extent of our wisdom when it comes
to our nutritional knowledge and,
and what nutritional value means to the body.
That's what we've gotten.
But when I say I'm hungry, there are certain things
that aren't on the menu.
Like, I'm not going, I wish I had a can
of whipped cream right now,
because that makes for a really hardy dinner.
Like for all of us, when the body says I'm hungry, all
of us have a paired down sort of understanding
of what's on the menu, right?
That like, and, you know, we have relationships
and dynamics with our partners
and the people that we live with and,
and share food with that says, here's kind of
what my menu's looking like
and here's what my menu's looking like.
But that to me seems like the wisdom
because the selection over time of, of food, after food,
after food, after food leads to either heartburn
and indigestion and acid reflux and obesity,
or it leads to energy and vitalization
and, you know, all of these things. So
I will say It actually makes sense.
It's fun when my wife penetrates the veil enough
to look up a new recipe.
And then I have, I have appreciated that, that depth
of wisdom, that, that, well she's, it's,
I could call it the, the depth of, uh, intuitive insight
that leads to the wisdom of making that new recipe through
The experience. Like,
so she has the, the in intuitive idea
that something else is available,
and then you guys have it, you have the experience of it,
and now it becomes part of your wisdom that, oh,
that is a new selection that,
that we want on the menu all the time,
or, you know, always available.
Yeah. Better and better ways of, I see use of the body.
It's almost like an, an idea that pops in your head there.
Like your analogy, Andrew, of eating gum bears all the time.
Oh, this is giving me a stomachache Now I wonder
if I should change this up.
Or the idea that maybe, maybe this could lead
to something else from there.
To me, it's that awareness or that idea is,
is the potentiator that kind
of comes into your mind based on those
previous decisions over
And over. Yeah. New options.
And that's what data represents is
of all the realm of everything that's in your unconscious
that you're not aware of, you know, that you need something.
And this thing is coming forth to say, well,
based on your experience and transformation
and wisdom thus far, this is now what's available.
Now you've got gummy bears or you've got fruit rollups,
and you're like, oh man, fruit rollups, it says, made
with real fruit that seems slightly better than gummy bears.
Right? And now you're living on fruit rollups for a while,
and maybe you feel slightly different or better,
but yes, that therein lies the transformation
and the sort of, you know,
the journey fool's journey, right.
And to some degree that it's the sudden awakening of,
of the realization of new food,
A wakening. And
Would you say though, like, of the spirit there,
it seems like that one's much more potent
of a realization versus maybe a little more subtle ideas
that could come to you, uh,
of the potentiate say, of body or mind.
It doesn't have to be so dramatic where it seems like when,
when the spirit's involved,
it's like a potentially earth shattering.
I know we haven't gotten into that one much yet. I
Agree though. I agree
because it does say
that it seems more operative in time space,
and so due to law of correspondence
and that, it even said earlier,
although I kind of questioned that it said that the,
the time space or the, the mind that's going on there is an,
uh, is an analogous or whatever, too, the other one.
And I'm like, I think it's more the other way around,
but I, I, you know, I saw where they were going,
but yeah, I, I definitely see that same thing.
It's less motile, but when there's gonna be a transformation
of the spirit, like everything else, better watch out.
Because, you know, my guess is the rest
of all your archetypes are gonna be
re comprehended in a way, right?
Or you're gonna start to experience 'em differently and,
and discover or move into them and out of them in new ways.
Yep. All right.
Are we ready to dive into the symbols here of the Yeah.
Oh, I put the wrong one there. Okay.
So we've got a few obvious symbols.
We'll con we can move into just the discussion of the matrix
of the, the potentiate of the body here, wisdom.
So we have a guy standing with a, a garment,
and today I had the first time I,
I realized these lines coming down.
I don't know if those lines are meant to be a part of this,
this fabric, just to show you that he's kind of opening it
that way, or if that's something else draping down.
I guess that's a question
that I had in interpreting this. What do you guys think that is?
Well, one thing that occurs
to me, actually, you asked that question.
Um, uh, going back to the email that you sent about oh three
or oh one, and the image analysis
or whatever does seem like somewhat helpful
as we look at a new card to say
what elements are present here that have been out,
present in, in archetypes that we've studied so far.
Yeah. So we can sort of like do a quick, okay.
We see the, his, his dress is sort of pointed left,
but it's a little bit broader that way.
We know that that's kind of keeping people a little bit
further, you know, like kind of recap the concept within
this complex itself that we've covered
and then say now what exists outside.
Yeah, we can start with the big, the big pieces. Yeah.
So the big pieces that were identified, uh,
we have the headdress, uh, we have the profile
and facial features, the broad collar, which is a uec.
I don't think I would've figured that out without help from
the AI or Nick, U-S-E-K-H.
Yeah, I mean, I've heard it before.
The, the, yeah, this, this thing that I've heard it before,
but I probably would've pulled that out
of the, out of thin air.
Um, did we determine that the skirt in the,
in the previous archetype, that
because it was more sticking out that far to the left, that
that meant it was, um, on the path to the left
that people are sort of farther away from you? Is that
Yeah. Yeah. The service
to the service
to self path had more distance?
No, this seems not as, um, Pronounced.
Not as pronounced. Right. Do you pick up on that too?
Yeah. Okay.
But also the whole, the whole, I mean,
I think there's more emphasis on this,
this back fabric being pushed out.
Apparently he's holding onto it, uh,
but he's also holding onto this other handle thing
that's holding the flame.
And I, I, I like the, the symbol here.
This flame kind of comes up right about to where he,
his eye is, he's looking right about at the same height
as the tip of the flame.
That's, that's reaching,
Reaching up. Where is the other corner
of that fabric?
Is it disappeared? It's Attached to it. It, it doesn't
Show, looks like it's disappeared.
Right. It's like it's a cloak,
like it's attached at his neck.
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
It could be attached to the back of his body. Yeah.
Oh, Or if it's just a cloak that's draped up
and around him and he is holding it up to that side.
All right, well, let's think about the fact
that he is extending this.
He is extending it to his left, um,
which is the way that he is oriented, which is to say either
that this cloak or fabric has a specific function,
depending on which way it's pointed,
or that it will always be growing in the way
that you are oriented.
Yeah. So
this, yeah, this background, it's almost now
that recall it a cloak.
I'm wondering if, if there is relationship
to this other one being worn here, where this one
that is just covering the, the intuition,
you could say maybe this is now outstretched
and it's being reached with at this, this,
So let's think of the normal function in the body we've
been talking about, um, food, which is quite helpful,
but we, in, in relation to other bodies,
the sexual requirements, um, obviously have
to fall under the matrix of the body in terms
of its normal functioning.
And then in terms of what's available on a service to self
path, you know, again, which is sort of
what we're looking at, we have a little bit
closer relationship.
What was the other one where we saw that?
Um, was it the, um, was it
four or no, five or six? Could
You repeat the question?
The skirt with a pointed to the left, was it? Oh, yeah.
That was the experience of the mind.
Experience of the mind. Okay.
Um, Yeah, well, that kind
of makes more sense.
Honestly. I think that the, the mind probably does
express in a, a lot more of a separated way
or have a more separate experience.
Whereas in the physical body, whether you're in partnership
or you're just in the world,
there are physical bodies all around.
And so you start to come in closer.
But what about the flame? Have we seen flame in other cards?
Like is, and to your point, Mike, it's sort of at eye level,
you know, so he is, he's looking left, he's got the, the,
the service to self is kind of his orientation here.
Um, though I don't think that the purpose of the card is, is
to, to just simply claim that the potentiator
of the body is, um, by nature of service to self thing,
but rather to show some aspect of this experience.
While in this incarnated experience, we do tend
to be more service to self kind of adjacent or oriented.
But there's something about this car that's teaching us
that even on that path, there's something available to us.
There's something that can teach us another way.
I wonder if this could be compared to the quote
where they say walking around in,
in space time is like walking
around in darkness with a tiny candle.
That's the one that came to mind for me here is
that's exactly what it looks like.
You're looking, you can only see so far,
you're getting just this small little light being
illuminated from this candle as you're searching.
So you only get so much, I guess, potentiation at time.
It's not this, I guess you don't see the full picture
when you're searching through here.
Yeah. And
it's lotus pedals, I guess.
Nick, what was the lotus symbol? Meaning,
Uh, the blue lotus, um, was like, uh, a lucid in drink
that they would, they would imbibe.
I I always thought of it as meaning, like, uh, so if you,
if you have done like d nm TRI was
or things like that, you have that experience.
It's like the gateway to that realm
when it's in the picture.
Well, I know we haven't gotten down to the snake.
I was looking at the snakes more at the waist, more
so even than at the bottom.
But what, is there a really broad understanding
of snake in this context?
Because we've got four of 'em here.
Yes. Snake meaning An Egyptian
Called the ure Uri. Um,
Glad you tried that word first.
I wasn't sure.
Wow, that's UREs
A heck of a word.
So the orus, uh,
it means a rearing cobra is the stylized upright form
of an Egyptian cobra used this as a symbol of sovereignty,
royalty deity, and divine authority in Egypt.
So there's some sense of freedom for, for acting,
I guess, sovereignty, inaction,
that the, the wisdom represents not being hindered,
I guess, along either polarity.
There's two polarities here of the serpents. The, so
That, that is sort of showing some level.
While there's one in front of the other though, I don't know
that that's as germane
because they're sort of right next to each other
and in the same position.
Um, do you think that they're saying that the, um, as far
as the potentiate of the body goes, the catalyst
that may stem from it
and the experience, um, are equally useful on either path,
although I don't know if that why they would show, you know,
two, you have a, a black
and a white serpent
that are both going, you know, to the left.
Um, perhaps because a lot of the pursuits that come from,
from the matrix of the body and the normal functioning
and what we draw from the potentiator, um, might have a,
a default orientation,
but an availability of another polarity.
So a lot of, um, sex, um, seen, you know,
as objectification is root and sacral activated
and blocked, you know, kind of above that though, a pursuit
of, of sexual experience, um, can be sought
that activates at a much higher level
and could be very much a service to others.
Though I don't know that we ever see
a depiction in the images of somebody pointed to the right,
you know, exercising.
I don't know. It would need to be other body archetypes
to see are there any body archetypes
that are oriented. Yeah, right. I
Just looked at that. Uh,
and there's only one, so if,
if they're not in the middle, uh, the only one that looks
to the right is the experience of the body
in every other card everybody faces
to the left if they're not facing the body.
Yeah. Experience of the body
and then the significant of the body,
the dude's hung upside down.
He's kind of looking it, you know, off camera that direction
because it's, there was his left, but he's upside down.
There was one discussion that was from an earlier card
where Ross said that you could remove some of the attachment
to the significance of facing to the side
because this was just the way things were drawn in those
times that there, there wasn't a front,
a front facing version of, of that the art
that was commonly used.
Okay. But I don't know if, you know, it's always useful
to continue to consider this
because it's interesting, you know,
you think about the matrix of the spirit is darkness
and that the contrast of the darkness
and the light is a part of this process of,
of spurring the spiritual evolution, then,
then it would make sense that observing along, just
as the experience of the mind,
they're putting more emphasis on the, on the, the focusing
to the service to other side.
That's like the more distracting
and even the magician, you know, he's, he's, he's
well focused forward on that, on that direction.
But, um, I was gonna say, if, if we look at the other side
of the card here, the, the staff is the primary, the,
the only symbol that seems to be, uh, along
that, that right hand path.
And I, you know, I had to question what what is the depths
of what the, the staff could mean here?
And I, I I, I certainly like this suggestion that I saw
that this could be represented representing like a full,
a fully aligned chakra system.
You know, along the, and it's also interesting, you know,
have, we have symbols of like from the book of Exodus
where Moses throws down the staff
and it turns into a serpent,
and then it says the, the wise priest of Egypt through,
through on their staffs
and their staffs turn into serpents too.
They could do the exact same trick that the staff
and serpent connection with something understood along,
you know, the positive and the negative paths.
But, but, but, but I guess the, the symbol of the staff is
as the Kundalini rising is what I was getting at is may,
maybe what we're hinted, but, um,
but the fully balanced maybe across all the,
the chakra centers with the heart open could be what this,
this, uh, staff is representing.
And I also wondered if it's, it's at a slight tilt.
The staff is at a slight tilt,
and it's also like, it's got a, a thing on the top.
And I wonder if that's like representing in some way the,
the pineal, uh, the, as you get to the, the,
the top part that you have.
The,
That was good. Pretty close to
the lining also at the pineal there.
Yeah. So I guess I'd looked at it
before is, was it in the Bible?
Whenever there talk about the rod
and staff, it kind of almost correlates to faith
and will as well that that balance continues on that path.
And I guess with having that continued faith,
but I mean, I could very well see it being also,
like you were saying, the, the chakra system
and using that in a balance working fashion as well.
Where else have we seen, um, a tall staff like that?
He had wands of different kinds
and raw would've usually have him redraw the wands
to be the, the spheres of magical power,
which also indicates to me, I don't really know if
raw would've said that the staff was a part
of the originally intended image.
Um, but yeah, we can just go with what we have
and assume that that probably was, um,
but we had a sword, a scepter in the matrix of the body.
Um, and,
but maybe the staff is for balance, uh, walking with balance
an indication that the matrix of the body,
the balance is still present in that,
That would make a lot of sense in terms of wisdom.
And going back to what you said,
that in balance functioning, perhaps that's when
catalyst is most, um, you know, efficacious only
because we're not thrown completely outta sorts
and we're not totally off balance by it.
I mean, catalyst, that's so overwhelming,
I suppose in a way, once we declare defeat to it, it's
arguably no longer catalyst.
I mean, once we've decided we can't meet it, it's,
we've passed up that opportunity
and we're gonna wait for another one.
Um, so that kind of makes sense to bring some level
of balance functioning though we typically find
contrast between polarity in these cards, right?
Or at least a lot of times that's
what we end up looking at is where's the polarity?
And other than the snakes at the bottom,
where else do you guys see, you know, positive
and negative polarity here, if we were to not pay attention
to even which direction it's looking?
Is there? Well, it's
Interesting.
Yeah. Uh,
but these are actually the same,
they're both the same color. Yeah.
Yeah. But the fact that they're looking in different
directions would insinuate polarity
To me. Okay, good
point. Yeah.
But that, see that insinuates balance and
Right over the groin too, by the way, I go back to
what I said earlier, that
that sexual pursuits can be along either polarity
and I mean, raw teaches that very explicitly about,
you know, first and second chakra activation
versus all the rest of them.
Yeah. And what else? Think about it.
No, let's, let's expand on this a little bit more. Okay.
And the potentiator of the body here, when we look at,
especially if we're gonna get narrow enough
to look at just the physical body,
we've talked about nutrition and, you know, exercise.
It's like think about interactions with other bodies
as both part of normal functioning
and then source of catalyst.
I would, I would contend that for most people that have a
otherwise sort of average
or, you know,
somewhat in the middle experience from a health
and nutrition physical experience standpoint,
the vast majority of the catalyst of the body is going
to come from the polarity that's chosen out
of the potentiator of the body.
And so I, you know, again, not to oversimplify it,
but the fact that those two snakes, you know,
are right there and saying that both options are available.
I, I would just say that, that there's more catalyst
available in, in coming from the potentiate of the body
as it relates to interacting with other bodies
necessarily than it does just in health and wellness.
Though obviously some people clearly get a lot of
catalyst from health and wellness and, and diet
and exercise, or lack thereof.
I'm a good example of somebody
who actually doesn't really follow any particular diet,
doesn't really have any particular exercise routine at all.
Um, and yet do not have a, a wildly, you know, on average
physical experience of my body.
And so, um, I didn't come here to incarnate to learn
through obesity or learn through, you know, the things
that come from this.
It just, it just wasn't part
of my experience one way or the other.
But clearly my interactions with other physical, you know,
bodies throughout my life has led to tremendous
and absolute, you know, incessant catalyst.
So I guess I don't want to, you know, um,
over accentuate that one lens.
And yet I also don't want to underestimate the fact
that in this reality, um, you know, connections
with other humans is why we're here.
And it drives almost everything, all of this work is,
is impossible to do alone.
I mean, you can't do service on either path alone
because one requires other people to serve
and the other requires other people
to manipulate and control.
Yeah. They, I think this is also speaking to the fact
that it's really a part of the structure of the,
of the potentials of the mind that there, that it's just,
it's, it's literally, uh, like, like something
that she has to sit in between.
It's, it's, it's all around us, this polarity as part
of the structure of potentials.
And, but, but it's interesting that the,
the lightning has no polarity and it's tipping over people.
And these people are, are representing polarity, I think.
Um, but it, but I,
but I wonder if in the face of purified light
or purified wisdom, if polarity is,
is not yet chosen.
It's just a part of the structure of the potential, uh, of
what, what could come with the catalyst.
But, but, but when understanding the purest form
of the wisdom, like you could, a, a person could understand
how to eat healthy and be helped to use their bodies
to help others or use their bodies to serve themselves.
And the polarity is, is still free to be chosen.
Even if you're maintaining your, your body in a healthy way,
you're still free to use your,
your healthy body along either polarity.
So that's why I, I see wisdom as being something
that occurs, you know, with the, the, you know, the, the,
the way in which polarity can be amplified,
but it's not yet choosing that yet.
It is important, I think though, that it's attached
to the body because things
that are chosen in physical manifestation, I think have
the most impact.
I mean, 'cause we talk about choices, obviously being the,
the, the ultimate. Yeah.
But the, the lightning one is of the spirit,
and the spirit is more of the time,
space realm than the space time realm.
Yeah. Yeah. That is the most impact probably, um,
in and of itself.
Like if you were to compare any one spiritual catalyst to,
um, a catalyst of the body,
I suppose you might describe the spiritual catalyst
as more impactful.
But what I would say, I suppose is
that there's a lot more catalyst of the body available
than the catalyst of the spirit
and maybe even, um, experience of the spirit.
I, I don't know, we haven't gotten there yet.
And I think it's gonna be fun
and challenging when we do get there.
But we do all set tend to agree that while even the,
the mind and body have slightly, um, complimentary, um,
those separate kind of relationships between Matrix
and potentiator, the spirit, you know, again,
once again does itself too with the matrix being, uh,
darkness, you know, it Yeah.
I still think that we get a lot more impact from the
catalyst of the mind and body, um, only
because in in lower consciousness or without waking up
and without making a lot more choices, I just don't know
how much spiritual, um, catalyst is really available.
Yeah. But that, I think that is also why the whole, uh,
the body was created
and why the experience of the veil was created and all that.
'cause that experience was had in its
fullest at the beginning.
If you wanna call life an experiment
of consciousness experiencing at the beginning
of the experiment, the spirit was able
to have all the spiritual doodads
because it had it instantly.
Then you start breaking it into, you know, well let's do,
uh, polarity
and we'll break it down into like a chronological form
where you have to experience things one at a time instead
of experiencing everything at once.
And I think that the, the potentiator of the body,
the fact that his feet are so far apart.
So that thing you said, Mike, about the whole, um, Ross said
that's just the styling of the time.
Everybody goes to the left kind of thing.
So then that says to me that you don't have
to pay attention to whether they're looking to the left
or the right in every one,
unless Polarity is really being driven home
in, in that card.
I think that the, the default way is to look to the left,
but he's looking to the left
and he is got his feet, Aja, he's moving,
he's moving forward through time.
That that is the potentiator of the body is the act
of putting to potential experiences
that the body could have motion.
And he is, he's got the light up, he's moving forward,
he's looking forward, he's light in his way.
And the, and the rod I got, I'm still looking
for the specific Egyptian documentary.
I thought it was John Anthony West's,
but I've rewatched that twice over.
Uh, but the, the one guy talks about how the rod represents,
like you were saying, like faith or Will or, or spiritual.
'cause they had the three things, the rod, the Onk
and the, the Cadu.
I think it was that the Egyptians hold all the time.
And I think that the rod was like wisdom.
So if he's walking forward in time lighting his way
with his candle, and he's got wisdom with him, like,
like if he was hacking through the experience of life,
and this was his machete to, to knock away the overgrowth,
you know, with the wisdom of the experiences, had
got it right here and ready to go through
as he's lightened his way with his torch.
I think that that's more about, um, motion.
And, and that, that that's what
that looking the left is in that one.
And then the two snakes in front of him on the ground
represent as you go through life.
Both polarities exist at all times in front of you
to make the, the choice down one polarity path or the other.
So it's more about this dude going through life.
So yeah, I I I, I wanted to also say
that I'm very confused why there's, on the law
of One Info website, the version of this, these images
that they chose from this is the card
with the guy facing forward
with the staff directly in front of him.
I don't know if this is close to what Don was looking at,
but since they never got to question this,
I don't really know which one is,
And and that's the one that's in the book.
I mean, it's, it's almost like a knight.
Oh, interesting. Yeah.
So there's some discrepancies
between the different versions of this.
Oh, that's way different. Yeah.
Which book is that? Oh,
the, the book that we're talking about.
But that was just what they were able to get published.
They weren't able to get the original ones.
They able to Right.
You know, find some other version
that people were allowing to be shared.
You know, the one that you pulled up, Mike,
you can barely even tell a color difference in the serpents
that the hat is really the, the only way
that you can tell a big difference.
Do you, are you guys familiar with those hats
or what those indicate this sort? Yeah.
And that's another thing that's in that documentary
that I've been looking through, they talk about how the hat,
like the, the one that's cup shaped is, is
it's something like your spiritual potential.
So it, and this could all be wrong,
and when I find it, I will lay it out.
Uh, but it's something like
someone who's beginning the spiritual journey,
consciously beginning, beginning the spiritual journey has a
small bit of wisdom and they put that hat on.
And then when they have the other hat that hat fits inside
of that hat, meaning like an enlightened pathway.
So there's, those two things are very,
and I can't even remember the names
of at this point, but they're very specific.
And the curly cue to the left side
and the curly cue to the right side.
Yeah, it was like a uniting of upper and lower Egypt.
But it was like the concept, like you were saying Nick
as well, where it's kind
of uniting both of those paths together.
Mm-hmm. And having some sort of higher level of wisdom or,
or understanding from there too.
Yeah.
Well, I guess we could say what, what exactly is the same
between these images and you have the, the staff, the flame,
maybe that is incense, I don't know,
but something's burning there.
And then the, the two cobras
and the garment is really big on this one,
but he's wearing it more.
He's not as naked.
And I'm, I don't know if the nakedness, it was a suggestion
of openness.
Vulnerability. Yeah. Vulnerability.
But this seems to be very heavily, heavily, uh,
clothed figure, which may be relating
to the veil. I don't know if this, well,
And the, this, the middle one,
if you were looking at 'em from the other side,
would be very clothed as well.
You know what I mean? Yeah, true.
Like the, the clerk is, is representing being protected
and that person in the middle one is using it
to protect them from the left side while holding the stamp
of wisdom to the right.
I see. That makes sense.
So if the collo is a protector,
it's definitely protecting on both ends.
It's just like you said, the style of the, of the drawing.
Yeah. Alright.
I would, I would love to see if we can wrap up in the last
20 minutes more of the symbols.
And I guess what, what haven't we discussed here?
So, so the, the caller, the uec, uh,
Um, apparent according to Chatt BT oh one, uh,
they said concentric rings can suggest degrees of influence
or layers of protective energetic support.
They were status symbols in Egypt.
Um, and they said these may
metaphorically represent, um, the seat of expression
between the channel, the mind
and the body at this part of the, the body.
Um, but I mean, I mean, I guess you could say these are
representing radiation from the, the higher centers.
Maybe the Blu-ray is represented here at this level,
or maybe since it's below the head,
it can represent the blue and the indigo centers.
Um, and it looks like a radiation, you know,
concentric circles will be different layers
of radiation, I think.
And also, like they were saying that it, it, um,
represents a certain level of society,
sophistication, knowledge, you know, like to have
that on just implies
that they're consciously going on the journey.
Whereas, you know, a peasant
that's just barely scraping by who doesn't have time
to think about the greater the, you know, the greatness
of it all isn't walking around
with one of those on its neck.
Right. Would that tie in too, then
with like the, the other image too?
It's like he's wearing a crown almost, or,
and this one, I, I'm not sure
what this headdress necessarily means
from Egyptian depiction here,
but if that's also some sort of form of maybe royalty or,
or kingship from that point.
The one that I've, I've, uh,
experienced the most is they said that said that when the,
the headdress is like, it represents hair longer,
hair swept back.
It represents the feminine.
So the men would shave their heads
and put on a feminine headdress to show that they were, um,
that they were, um, you know, looking
to achieve higher consciousness.
They were on the path to learning the, the,
the secrets of life, I guess.
So I guess there's one more
variability point here then, Nick.
What, what in the book that you were looking at from the law
of one, that other image they had,
what is the headdress look like there?
Is it different? The Head dress in this one?
It's, it's kinda less about the, uh, the headdress
and more about the fact that it,
the person kinda looks like,
like they're, they, you know, like they,
they're put together well, like,
they're wearing decent clothes.
They have like a, almost like a beehive.
Um, see if I could line this up
and then get my head outta the way.
So I will,
I've got to unshare my screen here to get it
to show everybody what's, what's it looking?
Oh, looking at a place in the upper right there. Or
Is that better?
Oh, a little bit. Up and into your left.
Hold it up more higher. Higher. No, the other higher up.
Oh, okay. You want both
to go up? I thought you wanted the image.
Yeah, a little bit more up. Yeah. Okay.
So is, is the character looking at a place
or like conceiving of a place do you think, here
Looks like, like a castle in the
clouds or something like that?
Yeah. So is
that like maybe the interpretation of like the,
the light then that we were looking at the lamp
before, like he's looking off into the light
or the sun or the idea from there.
Oh, because I don't see a lamp in that one.
And the fact that he seems to be going uphill
or aiming uphill, does this sort of, you know, kind
of imply a little bit tougher journey here or,
Yeah, it looks like got something in his hand there,
but it might just be the holding the cloak
ahead of himself and the light is actually coming from that.
'cause it looks like it's a sun.
How's that look right there?
Yeah, that's good. I think he's holding
a shield, I wanna say.
'cause he is got a sword and he's got a helmet.
I, I thought that exact same thing
until I really looked at it.
It just looks like the cloak is drawn out in front of him.
Go up, lift it up again. There you go.
Oh, other than the bottom of it sort of tapering in.
I agree with you. Yeah. The fact that it comes off the
shoulder, it does actually seem, yeah.
More like it's the cloak,
But in this one, so he is, he doesn't have the,
he is not holding the light.
He's going towards the light, you know, like that,
that castle looks like it's coming out of the sun,
which be a sub low
Guy almost protecting himself with that cloak that way.
Yeah. Well, I can share my screen here now
and show you on the Wikipedia page for the, the,
the hermit card number nine.
There's a bunch of different versions here
and none of them look like, well, maybe,
maybe this one, let me see here.
He's, yeah, he's holding up different kinds of lights
and different, different versions.
There's some type that's right
of light source in all of them.
Yeah.
Why do you suppose he is called the hermit?
So we're looking at 22 cards.
Almost none of them have more than one character.
Why is it that, and I want, I'm, so I'm getting back
to I guess the, or how old that card is,
but like, how long ago was that determined
to be called the hermit?
I'm trying to figure out how much
to read into the definition of hermit versus just the fact
that he is a guy walking on the zone.
Well, did rock call it the hermit ever?
Um, I'm gonna search for the word hermit in the loved one.
I don't think they call it the hermit.
I think they just chose you to call it wisdom or the sage.
The sage was another. And I think the sage might enlighten
wise calling hermit because if you, if you look up sage,
it's um, a wise man, especially one
who, uh, features in ancient history are legend having
or showing indicating profound wisdom.
And you could say that to be a hermit, you have
to have some degree of wisdom to live alone.
That's the closest thing I thought.
Or you can develop wisdom By living alone.
Yeah. Yeah.
I, I think live alone requires some wisdom too.
Well, maybe you live alone in a cave, I should say.
You've mastered your ability to stay alive. Yeah.
If you can live in a cave without other people to depend on.
That was my idea, Mike, when you were saying that,
it's like you, you developed the wisdom by going off to the
Laan mountains to to live in a cave
or the 13 years to become enlightened kind of thing.
But I guess you could also be smart to go live on your own
as well in that way. But,
But again, if, if rock called it the sage
or wisdom card as opposed to the hermit card, it could be
just a, a further manipulation of the English language.
Agreed. Which is why I'd rather go off in this case,
what raw is saying,
because I think raw is using words that are
obviously drawn much more specifically to the energy
of the card as opposed to how it was interpreted, you know,
by somebody else a long time ago.
Yeah. Plus I feel like there's somewhat
of a negative connotation on hermit Yeah.
As this person that goes off on their own, you know,
and that the sage brings up a totally different,
totally different style of thought.
Yeah. Agreed.
Though both of them seem
to be somewhat introspective in nature.
You know, both of them take their time to go inward
and to go, you know, figure out the, the nature of a reality
that to them seems far more true
or salient than the one that's presented otherwise.
And there's something about this act of going either inward
or separate or what have you.
And I'm trying to find that here with the potentiator
of the body itself, as far as, um,
even though I was drawing earlier what the,
where the experience of the body interacts
with the experience of other bodies.
The the hermit aspect of this sort of implies the other way.
And, um, I don't know that that resonates, really.
The body itself is separate by nature of the fact
that the physical body is its own separate unit.
So I do, I do find that the expression of individuated
physical bodiedness is an expression of separation.
It's a choice to express as separate.
So that in itself is sort of a hermit.
You're like, your body is the,
is the most separated you can be from anything.
And anyone else, our mind is at, you know, is is time space
and at higher states that are outside of spacetime reality.
So to embody, to fully incarnate
as the physical body is about as committed as you can get
to this idea of being separate from your source.
I would like to spend the, the remaining time here trying
to get through a, a little bit more on the matri, uh,
the potentiator of the spirit discussion.
And we started out with a discussion from, was it 78?
And I can resume 78 point 11 finishing that.
So the matrix of spirit is what you may call the,
the night of the soul Or primeval darkness.
Again, we have that which is not
capable of movement or work.
The potential power of this extremely receptive matrix
is such that the potentiator may be seen as lightning
in your archetypical system called the tarot.
This has been refined into the concept
of the lightning struck tower.
However, the original potential potentiator was light
and its sudden and fiery form that is the lightning itself.
And so that phrasing, uh, has led me to wonder if
everything in this card,
other than the lightning was added on later,
or if they're talking about something like the
before the veil, it was considered as just lightning.
But I, but I, but I think definitely that the, the value
of this image is in understanding lightning itself
as a sudden burst of awakening.
Yeah. This kind of makes sense
because when we think of the potentiator of the mind,
it's sort of the unconscious
and it's like this vast, vast sea of, of potential
that could be and, and come across
and be experienced as literally almost anything.
But actually this makes a lot of sense.
If you do establish that the matrix
of the spirit is prial darkness,
then the potentiator can only be light.
And and it can only be, you know, like
that's it, that's just the one thing.
It's the total opposite of what you know already is,
or what is, um, experienced as the matrix
as primeval darkness.
So this kind of makes sense
that you're not gonna get a different shade of darkness,
I guess is what I'm getting at
in the potentiate of the spirit.
It's like, look, you chose darkness when you chose
separation and you're manifesting in this separated reality.
Now I'm not drawing apparel.
I'm saying that for me that's how this sort
of resonates into this whole notion of original sin and,
and fractualize consciousness as, you know, um, proceeds
or, um, transcends I suppose this physical reality.
But that part makes perfect sense.
The spirit sort of, it's,
it's nature within this ex expression
and experience certainly is dark.
It's gotta be because we're we're expressed
as an experiencing separation.
You know, and I've talked about this before
and you guys kind of know, I think where I'm at on
that I'm not a big fan of it, you know, I'm not in sort
of like harsh judgment on myself for choosing to be here,
still trying to figure out why I chose it.
But, um, every day that I experience that,
my default nature is not knowing myself as one, uh,
to me is just a reminder of that I still have more work
to do and that I would never want to choose
to come here again because this is not an
experience that I like.
And I can only say that because I've had very, very few
but very, very poignant experiences of oneness.
And so now I'm like, oh yeah,
like in comparison it's like there is
no comparison whatsoever.
So if the matrix is dark
because of the original choice to express
and separation, then the potentiator has to be lightning.
Yeah. Matrix, so to speak.
And I do, I still eventually wanna circle back to the idea
that Ross said the value of these archetypes is to know
when one may choose to take on the personality
of each archetype and become that archetype at will.
And you were saying earlier
that you thought maybe we have less catalyst
of the spirit available to us
than catalyst of the mind and body.
And it's interesting that for people who are in states of,
uh, the dark night of the soul,
they may actually be opening up the doorway to have far more
catalyst of the spirit than anything else.
If they can step into the potential of that darkness and,
and see that, that the light is, is always available
and that we can actually become lightning.
And I think this is maybe worth contrasting against becoming
the sun, I think what they,
they put emphasis on the challenge
of adepts even reaching the level of appreciating the light
of the sun and just becoming that all radiant force for,
for spiritual transformation
or potentials for spiritual transformation.
But I think that it starts with this potential,
which is the spark when, when we,
when we at least can recognize a spark of light
as being within us, within our souls, something that, that,
that is, is powerful and illuminating without needing form,
but just the, but just appreciating
that there is that potential.
I think that that is actually what then becomes the,
the catalyst, the faith is expressed
through this combination of the darkness
and the light that we're, that we're seeing.
So that, that, but, but,
but this also to me is, is, is
bringing up why I think there's
all this stuff in the middle of this.
And I liked the, the idea that maybe this is
the lightning brings on the initiation
and the initiation, uh, has baked into it all the,
all these potentials of, of the, the, the,
what the pyramid might represent on some level, the,
the different levels of, of of the, the,
the resonating chamber at, at the base, which is
bringing one to the state of the death of the self.
And I, this is another thing I just made this connection
maybe today, that these, these three different chambers here
represent, could represent
the three different chambers in the pyramid.
The, the, the one that's meant for initiation, the one
that's meant for, um, healing, the one that's meant for the
death to the self through one.
One could say that these figures here are humbling
themselves in this lowest position.
Um, that that could be the, the foundation of what, um,
might be leading to these, these, uh,
experiences of lightning.
Um, but maybe this also represents, um,
you know, worship or, or,
or some, some, some appreciation of light in, in a, in,
in a more grateful state.
Um, that leads then to the, the higher initiations
and the higher, um, potentials of transformation.
But I, but, but maybe this doorway represents a microcosm
of, of the spiritual growth process.
And that's why it's kind of
small compared to the rest of the image.
It's like,
Then again, I wanna go back to the earlier comment, Mike,
about the catalyst because I think that you make a really,
really good point that when I say that I feel like catalyst
of the spirit is less available.
And then you point out though, that those
that sink into the matrix of the spirit, those
who really experience a dark night of the soul,
I think are really opening themselves up to
and allowing for this potential.
And I'm not sure why, but that really seems to be the case
that when you absolutely sink in, this is what a lot
of people even call rock bottom.
And maybe this isn't, you know,
spiritual lightning per se, though.
There is a claim of worth I think that comes to those
who may have hit rock bottom.
And it's like you have to find yourself
where you've suddenly declared
that you could not be worth less.
There is no way that you could, you know,
that you could bear less value.
And it's not until that moment when the only potential
is light, the only potential is the opposite of what it is
that you've really sunk into.
Then suddenly the potentiator, uh, becomes, you know,
uh, wildly present.
And obviously that experience is,
or the, the catalyst that, you know, stems from that light
and the experience of it.
Um, I wonder how that's, or whether or not,
or how that's experienced in polarity even.
Huh. But anyway, I I just wanted to say
that really resonated though about, it's not that you can't,
you can't, um, embody the archetypes of the spirit.
Clearly, the dark night of the soul is a great example
that is available to absolutely everyone
that just literally just gives up
and embraces, um, you know, all the darkness.
And, uh, maybe it's not until then for some people that
that lightning does come.
Yeah. Well, and you're, you're coming at it,
you're saying dark night of the soul coming at it from
someone who came from not
the dark knight of the soul.
You know, just like, uh, when people say, uh, you know,
aren't you afraid of, of dying?
And, and you're like, well, do you remember
what it was like before you were alive?
Like, no, they, okay. So it's a lot like that.
So I've always looked at this
specific passage when he is describing it as the,
the original spark that started the universe
and it came from nothingness.
And that being the dark night of the soul, like the,
the original consciousness
that we all come from sitting in complete and utter silence
because nothing has happened yet.
And then the decision to try
and experience is the lightning bolt.
And then with the lightning bolt hitting the top
of the pyramid, everything comes out of it,
duality comes out of it, all
of the stuff down in the bottom.
And, and that it's all representing all
different aspects of life.
And, but coming from complete non-existence
to the thought of having an experience,
thus creating the existence, that, that's
how I saw the lightning bolt, almost like the Big bang.
I feel like there's existence
and distortion that again, transcend
or precede the archetypes.
Though with that said, I think that their expression,
particularly in fractualize unfoldment are
re-express within the archetypes accordingly, like this.
So maybe like the, the, the transformation,
'cause they got, there's seven octaves
and we know nothing of the eighth octave.
So maybe that from seven to back to one
or from seven to eight is the dark night of the soul word.
There's no nothing happening.
And then the decision to have happening happens again.
And then the lightning bolt happens
and it kicks off this cascade of infinite experience.
This is the, I would have to agree that the choice
to have, uh, uh, an experience in separation,
the over devotion to this, this thought system,
that one thing can be separate from another,
would clearly have easily resulted in this exact dark night
of a soul, um, at a primordial level.
And this is literally the only thing
that could happen to change that.
And it goes back to that whole protection thing
and that you can't ever actually be separate.
You can sort of like explore this idea of separation,
but it's just not possible to be separate.
And so that also completely tracks
and make sense that at a level of consciousness,
even primordial and perhaps even, um, outside of,
and transcendent and beyond the idea of archetypical mind,
there is still, um, expression clearly
and to express as separate
or to choose, attempt to express as something separate, um,
would result in some mode of expression
that something else had to come in and,
and modify that mode of expression
because it was clearly a lost cause.
And something has to then allow a track back.
And it does seem like that's gonna be a very sudden
and acute experience.
And I do think there's a connection between these three
that we can, we can end pretty soon,
but I, I, I feel like the understanding the, the depth of
what, what we can reach into is also corresponding
to the depth of the light that we can call upon in the
moment and the depth of the wisdom that can guide us if we,
if we appreciate these, these potentials,
which it's also like the, you know,
what they call the potential and the kinetic of the, the,
the initial birth of the galaxy was the,
the intelligent infinity, which was the potential,
and then the intelligent energy is the kinetic.
So here where, where essentially the dipping in more
and more to the intelligent infinity potentials that,
that have an, an endless potential for, for light and wisdom
and I guess love along either path, love of self
or love of others, infinite.
Infinite, an infinite amount of love is,
can be drawn from in this potentiator.
Um, but there,
there are some other symbols I guess we could have talked
about, but I, but again, I was unsure if it's worth it.
I, I think that the, the lines in the background probably
are just meant to represent this is dark or, or, yeah.
Although the, then the lightning itself is black,
but with a white line around it.
I agree with you though. It's sort of, I think, designed
to show contrast.
Yeah. More so than anything else.
And, uh, the people upside down, it seems to indicate
that like whatever it was, that was that system of polarity
that had you in the dark night of the soul
that is being overturned.
Mm-hmm.
That tracks, I always thought it was that they,
they were so, if, if the lightning bolt hitting the pyramid
is, is a moment,
then the next moment these guys are on their heads falling
from either the strike or they were a atop the pyramid
and then it struck, I always thought of it showing that
from the, from the strike comes polarity
because you had that moment of action that started this
experience wheel.
And inherent Indian experience wheel is
the, the polarities.
What's in the, can you show
us the experience of the spirit?
The experience is the moonlight.
So that's more stark contrast
Polarity for sure. Yeah.
There's definite polarity right there, Uhhuh.
That's interesting. Nick, you, you raise a good point there
that in the, um, the matrix of the spirit,
we have all darkness and the potentiator of the spirit.
We might have the emergence of polarity,
though keeping in mind what Mike said, that
raw may have said that the only salient thing in
that image is the lightning.
Or may have also been saying
that originally the lightning was sort of primordial, uh,
potentially the spirit,
but that the rest of this, you know,
might still be applicable as it, you know, is applied
to the rest of, um, you know, downstream consciousness.
And we still haven't figured out if we're gonna assign
polarity onto these rams horns, uh, in the,
the two figures in the,
but they're chained together in the matrix
of the spirit. Primeval
Darkies. Yeah. I'm really not seeing,
I'm really not
seeing it so much there. Polarity.
Yeah. One is pointing down and one is pointing up.
Oh, That's the only thing.
But it's not like the colors of the other cards.
It's not a color polarity
Also not differentiated in left
and right, which is typical.
Well, I mean that's a that's a good point.
You know, so we, we make this primordial choice.
We overinvest in separation, we sink our consciousness, um,
such as it is into this night of a dark soul
because we've just committed to this idea
that we're separate from our source.
In comes this lightning bolt that now introduces the concept
of, of, I don't wanna say choice, because choice is also
Duality.
Maybe duality, maybe, maybe, um, yeah,
maybe. So that's
What I'm saying, like if
The Yeah, because even the choice to be separate is still
non-dual because it is me by myself.
I am now wholly consistent. I am the one.
But the choice to be separate comes from a point
of singularity and the choice to be separate the minute
that choice is made sparks, duality.
Yeah. It's more like a shattering of
that preconceived exactly.
Notion then. Right.
The pyramid splits open in what comes out of it, duality.
And we've created duality, well duality as a,
as a path back in this case,
because again, we're going from darkness to now we've,
we've gotten this lifeline of the potential of spirit
that gives us this big flash of light.
And then perhaps introduces a framework of, I guess,
can you have polarity without choice?
Can you have duality without choice?
Yeah. 'cause like to me, the, the duality just represents
the vibration, the up
and the down, the, the potential, you know, your,
your choice in a, in a given moment, but also light
and dark, uh, all of existence,
I think makes sense.
The, it's also interesting to hear, to think that we're in,
in these images, imagining what we are becoming and, and,
and emphasizing lightning and,
and, you know, if we're becoming the, the illumination,
I'll put that, I'll put that on the spotlight here.
Um, so the, the path
of becoming light leads to the great way of the,
of the spirit, which is the world.
And that is contact with the intelligent infinity.
So connecting
with the light can happen along either polarity
and the light can illuminate that which is manifest,
and that which is becoming manifest.
And the choice of polarity is, like you said, Andrew,
it's like the way of, of getting, of walking through
the journey to, to, from the darkness to
the full appreciation of oneness,
which can happen along either polarity.
I think it's helpful,
even though it's maybe not a one-to-one,
we still can't have things like archetypes in a vacuum.
They, they have to be expressions of still yet further
and further more primordial,
primordial expressions of consciousness.
And I do think that archetypal mind doesn't even start
until after some level of development or expression
or something is going on there.
And the archetypical mind, you know,
is an expression thereof.
However, as we see these things, just like you were saying,
Nick, like the, the mode to express
as separate was still available and made available.
And the moment that it was expressed, not so much chosen,
but expressed as then, then consciousness
unfolds itself into a new fractal, a new offshoot,
like you were saying, one A, one B, like, Hey,
I'm gonna try separation.
Well, the one that is all things now knows itself still
as, as all things.
But can it know itself in duality? I don't think so.
I don't think that the one infinite greater can know itself
as anything, but all things, um, it's us
that invents the idea of duality and separation.
But every, every expression of it becomes a like,
all right, go knock yourself out.
There's, you know, there's a, a mode of being
and a a a way of having experience.
Um, but we can see how maybe some of these things
then express back into the archetypes
just like this, you know?
I mean, even if it's outside of form
and outside of physical reality, it's still present.
It's still our consciousness makeup.
Well, the, the, the, uh, I think his name is Jerome.
The guy who was on one of the public calls
suggested a, a video.
Um, it's on Gaia.
Um, but I watched it
and the guy, he beautifully in an hour
or so described how basically
you can't move in a vacuum, right?
You can't move anywhere without relation to something else.
So in order to do that, if you were this point, in order
to move to this point, you'd have
to draw a circle around you.
And then from the center of that circle to the edge of
that circle, now you have a reference point.
You move from there to there.
And then the only, the furthest point you could go
to would be to draw a circle again.
And then you have a Venn diagram,
and then the points start to connect.
And basically what it eventually leads up
to is you draw out the seed of life.
And that's where, that's where the, um, I'd love
To see it if you, uh, come across that again
or, or find the name of it.
That sounds pretty interesting. I like sacred
geometry as a, yeah.
As one way of helping
to explain the relationships and consciousness.
And he, and he was basically saying that like, you know,
like we, we've talked about where Randall Carlson says
that this, this, um,
Plutonian solid represents this vibration, this frequency,
and that, you know, everything's made up
of vibration and frequency.
So you could essentially say that like gold was, uh, a,
a dodecahedron, octahedron smashed together, you know?
'cause you're talking about the different frequencies
that come together to make, make the material world.
And this guy was basically talking about how the frequencies
that, like the fabric that the frequencies are built on
comes from consciousness deciding
to be active.
And then in order to be active, it has to draw a map
of its of how to move.
And we are like the version 1 billion
of refreshing the software.
Like, okay, dot to dot was 1.0
and then.to.to dot was 1.1 0.1.
And then it just build into this much more complex system
that is us talking to each other, talking on these devices.
What occurred to me as you were saying that is relativity.
And when you were saying that you really can't have
movement, you also can't have measurement without being
relevant to something else.
Yeah. And that we think of things as being in finite,
apart from the fact that everything is in vibration
and you can't even nail it down to like, you know,
it even exists even beyond that.
There's no frame of reference, there's no objective frame
of reference, though I don't know if maybe s scaler fields
or something like that might get into that realm.
Um, but for us, in all of our regular sort of understanding
and interaction with this reality, they're just,
there isn't an inch is an inch
because it happens to, you know, be helpful
to us in the size that we are and we claim inch as inch
or foot as foot, but it just, it,
it's just completely arbitrary.
There is no, I guess there's planks constant, maybe there's
what they claim to be the very, very
smallest unit of measure.
I don't know, do you guys buy that?
Do you think the plane's constant is an absolute
or is an absolute relative to our, you know, understanding
of this particular universe?
I think it's all dreams within Dreams Within dreams, yeah.
I think it's, it's a way for us
to describe the reality around us.
And that's just the word that we chose to mean
that specific thing.
Yeah. I don't think that there's anything that's,
that's, that's the smallest.
I don't, there there is nothing small.
You can't have small without something bigger.
And so to say that plank's constant is the smallest unit
of measure, well, you're only claiming that in relation
to every other unit of measure and every other number
and size of anything that you're aware of.
But how, how ridiculous is that to say that everything
below the fifth floor is, is definitely
below the fifth floor.
And it's like, well, sure it's below the fifth floor,
but if you've never been below there,
you actually don't know how many sub basements there are.
You actually have no idea
how many floors there are below you.
You just know that here we are at the fifth floor.
We know that there's at least five floors above us,
and honestly, we don't know anything above that
or, you know, below where we've gone either.
And so yeah, when the, some of the constants I like,
but I think that they're very specific.
They're the, the, the settings for the blueprints
for this universe, like the irrational numbers and pie
and Oilers number
and you know, all these numbers that are just like magic to,
to mathematicians.
You know, he'd love
to watch these guys geek out on this stuff.
There's like, um, I think Robert Edward grant's his name,
he is a poly mathematician,
and he, he's got a, a show on guy
that talks a lot about that stuff.
But it's just really neat.
And, um, Randall Carlson with, um, frequencies, yep.
He's talked a lot about the numbers and frequencies
and how they come up in these sort
of sacred and divine numbers.
And it's like, they're there, they're all around us.
We just see these sort of like important numbers that
otherwise don't seem to make any sense to us.
Well, it's because relative to them, we've,
we just discovered them right in the middle of these
otherwise round numbers.
But what if our whole system of math were
incrementally understood
and utilized based only on these hard
and fast numbers for our physical reality?
Like these base numbers.
I mean, even, even a base 10 system compared
to like a Base 12, like if you've ever read anything about
somebody talking about a base 12 numbering system seems
to make way more sense than the Base 10, you know, system.
And yet I don't understand math well enough to, to make
that claim myself, but I find it pretty interesting.
I do think that raw referenced the laws
of physics are actually, you know,
created at one point in the evolution of the, of the mind
of the, of the galaxy.
It's like there's, there's everything is is
tan, uh, fluid.
I think everything could be rethought of redesigned.
And it's just, this is a very efficient design
that we happen to be experiencing as our universe.
And so it's fun to explore.
It's fun to incarnate because he's,
What's the, um, what is that law?
The anthrop anthrop, it's not the anthrop anthropological,
um, the guy who said that, um, trying
to figure out are we alive?
Did consciousness emerge
because everything just happened to work out just perfect,
you know, in this universe versus is is there no other way?
So like some people look at all these, these constants
and just go, there's absolutely no other way
that life could have even come to exist.
And then the other side is they say, well, um, it,
it was bound to happen sometime.
And there's probably lots of other universes
where life does not exist
and consciousness doesn't express either.
And so they kind of, you know, downplay, you know,
consciousness as an emergent principle as opposed
to a fundamental, uh, principle.
But I did read something recently that somebody has devised
what they think is going to be a way to experiment
and test this hypothesis. Did you find it, Mike?
Well, I, I think there's a couple things people refer to,
like the Drake equation as the probabilistic argument used
to estimate the number of terrestrial
civilizations. And similar
To that, it's, there's a, there's a light version of it
and a, and a heavier version of it.
It starts with an A. Um,
Who's that mathematician you were talking
About earlier? Uh,
Robert Edward Grant, I think. Is that right? Yeah,
Grant. Okay. Yeah,
he does Codex on Gaia
and he is doing a lot more content recently too,
I think, on YouTube or something.
So I, I've seen him also Andrew, I, I, the pyramids.
Yeah, his, he is his se series
and he goes into a lot of the pyramids.
He goes into a lot of, um, Leonardo da Vinci stuff.
Oh, cool. Yeah, it's real good.
Andro, I think it's the Anthropic principle.
Yeah, I think I just remembered the name of the word.
Yeah, the anthropic. So there's a strong and a weak of this,
but it's a principle in physics
and astronomy that states the universe is set
up to allow life to exist.
So anyway, I did read something recently
because it's sort of like one of those theories that, um,
I think most of science agrees or claims is untestable.
Um, but something I read recently, somebody sort
of surmised a way that they think
that they can actually test the Anthropic principle.
So I'll, uh, keep my eyes peeled for developments on that.
All right. Well, I think it's a good time to wrap it up,
but I encourage people to
consider the ways in which they
can become light in their lives.
It's just really a limited. Agreed.
Thanks for reminding me.
Definitely good seeing you guys as always.
Take care. Good To see you as well. Good
to see you guys.